The high output engines we have built , are assembled with premium parts, and assorted tricks to assure longevity. If we took our 3.6 based 800+ hp engine , and ran it with less, or stock boost, and limited its redline to 6800 or so it would run reliably for years, most probably 100,000 miles at least.

Diminishing returns occur when you push the envelope. 7800 rpm and 1.4 bar boost will require more diligent maintenance. The bottom end of these engines is basically bullet proof. If you can feed enough fuel to control combustion temps the engine will last until a case of operator error (missed shift)

I dont buy for a second the statement that 300hp is it.

That "pretty white coating" on the pipes is generally a ceramic coating ala swaintech or some other thermal barrier.

Porsche didnt water cool the heads of the 935's until they made something like 700hp.

A turbo engine with a Euro CIS intake, SC sport cams, a k29 hybrid turbo, and set of headers, will make 450 hp reliably for years.

edit: you need some head work to get that kind of power out of a 930 engine, forgot to mention that SmileWavy

Show me any other engine with 400+hp that matches the reliability of the 930.

Supra 800hp+ with STOCK BOTTOM END:( :(

Yeah, the supra engine is right up there with the 930 motor when it comes to bulletproof motors.

Its a small club though.

I am going to assume Snowman was referring to N/A engines. In which case he is probably right.

Also, there are plenty of reliable turbo motors out there these days. PLENTY. Technology has come a long way on this guys.

Turbocharged aircooled Porsche boxer 6:es can be very reliable except their inherent problem of leaking heads which develops after a while beacuse of "uneven surface"-condition, which occures after hours of ever changing head temperatures caused by air-cooling. But it's well-know, non-catastrophic and slowly-deteriorating problem.

Thats pretty amazing...800 hp with stock rods, crank. Has this engine hit 100k yet?( I don't mean cost)
Rick
'78 930

rick conrath,
Not to move too much from the subject,but TIMES have change a lot as you know Im involve in the Drag Racing thing with my 911 this days the supra boys not only are getting 800hp + some of them are doing it with stock injectors and the help that they are getting is unreal NOT like the PORSCHE comunity were is EXTREMELY hard to find help (Im not talking basics issues which you can resolve in here) Im talking RAW HP but thats another subject, this days the boys are going as far as shipping Turbo Skyline engines and installing them on the nissan 240sx this is just an example,and by the way you can pick a 800-1000hp supra for less than 60k but what do I know.;)

Here's dyno-video of same sort of engine we are going to run in our project-car (2.3L fourbanger):

http://www.sqr.se/PA_Motor.WMV

Torque > 650Nm
Power > 600HP

It has a tad bigger turbo than we are using but we will try to follow same design-philosophy.

I will really be impressed if the Supra is driving around 25 years from now with the same engine.
Rick
'78 930

It should be. The 3GTE engine it uses is really quite indestructable. People get over a 1000 hp out of the stock block, crank, and head though that kind of power does begin to push the limits of the hardware.

Though its a bit too big and heavy for my tastes, the last gen Turbo Supra will be for Toyota what the 930 was for Porsche.

On the streets a warmed over Turbo Supra is one of the few things I fear.

This is the best dyno-video I've seen in a long while:

http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv

A buick V6 putting out 1000 hp. I'm sure he'll get 150K between rebuilds. I'm not sure I would want to be in the building while he was doing that run.

Thats good only 20 more years to go.
Rick
78 930

350HP930
I can see that you know were I come from, at the end of the day ANY car with RAW HP regarless of any brand will not last as a mild car but May I mention if im not wrong that the words guiness record was by a Toyota Corolla:( must people hate the supras reality is that MUST supras with good hp will eat MUST Porsches unless you have a real fast porsche of couse dont ask this around, as many porsche owners with 300hp think that they have something. AND dont GET ME WRONG! no one loves the 911 more than me BUT Reality is another thing.

And to get 500rwhp you will need $25,000usd,a good tuner a good dyno,with MANY dyno runs,a good place to find your parts a good engine builder and skills to drive it, not to mention all the electronics to monitor your engine,and then on top who do belive since there are so many "call porsche gurus" and on top of that theres so many wrong information out there that a simple task could turn into disaster very very quick,but hey thats just my opinion and no ones has to agree with me.;)

BTW maybe we should start another thread as we may be Hacking on this one and thats not nice.....if someone starts it I be there;) Supra vs Porsche RAW HP

Juan I am working like crazy to put together a twin turbo setup, and it just kills me what they are able to do with the "riceburners". Fact is there are some really fast and relatively inexpensive setups amongst the Honda crowd. It's not really a fair comparison to be comparing 3.3 technology with the Supra though. Carrera GT, that is a different story.
If it's not the M3's its the Supras...I better get busy.
Rick
'78 930

As a HP junkie myself the Turbo Supra was one of the cars to make my short list when I was trying to make up my mind on what kind of supercar to get once I finally had a stable and good paying job.

Its rather obvious what ended up owning me in the end though. ;)

Might I remind everyone here that the 911 has never been about HP on tap. Even the mighty Turbos didn't have as much HP as a C2 Vette, with 400+ HP under the hood. The 911 has been about the entire package - not being a muscle car used for drag racing. That's not to say that you can't and shouldn't try to tap as much HP as possible, but you have to remember, you're starting with a production platform that didn't emphasize gobs of HP on tap to begin with...

-Wayne

you're starting with a production platform that didn't emphasize gobs of HP on tap to begin with...

EXCELLENT POINT! but we are brave do;) I always wonder why not, the 911 has everything anyone ever wanted but power.

I too consider them (supra) and also the m3 which my friend has one and we turbo too 500rwhp,we also turbo a honda to 550FWHP but my friends the only curves that come close to the 911 are the ones from J LO.

Rick
no to worry my friend we have what NO ONE HAS! TRACTION TRACTION TRACTION I have run against a 700hp 240sx with a turbo skyline engine and beat him my latest adventure (which I have stop posting because to many attacks against me) but I beat a 10 sec honda with 600whp and up too date Im considered one of the TOP DOGS all of that I thank my Traction and my michelins I will be running against a 1000hp supra very very soon and as we speak we are getting READY!

My hopes is that one day one day I will have the fastest 1/4 MILE 911 with 100% street trim a/c radio the entire deal easy said than done but heck I sure will give it a try,and since we are in the subject I have also been look down because we ran a 13.3 at the track what must people dont know is that we launch as an old lady but if i beat a 10sec car what that tell us;)

sorry we keep moving away from the original post:(

From a practical standpoint, most street cars under 3500 lbs are never going to be able to get much more than 600 HP to the ground.

We have a few monsters here in the Tampa area with everything from 500 to 1000 HP on tap and lets just say there is little difference between most of them at the track.

Anything over 600 HP in a street car appears to be pure overkill.

I'm optimistic that some better gearing, my weight advantage and a little over 400 HP at the crank will be enough to keep up with or beat a lot of those bad boys.

I'm optimistic that some better gearing, my weight advantage and a little over 400 HP at the crank will be enough to keep up with or beat a lot of those bad boys.

I too at one time had 277rwhp end result I was getting murder week in and week out.

Is a good point BUT the problem begins with Who do you want to dance with? (thats what I call street racing, dancing) we have cars that they wont even dare to run some of us is like in which class you want to be as an example,how I eneded in the 600-1000hp range,dont ask me how:D then you have another guys that they will run from a standing still to 1/2 mile and even a 1 mile which you can imagine what top speeds were are talking 170mph+ I dont even dare to get into that class so If you stay with in a realistic class then for sure you do good.

The way we do it (sorry away from the post) we have a broker that guy is the one that makes all the phone calls and set everything up I have no idea who Im running only what type of car and claim hp the time and location is set all other misc have been discuss from how many video camaras to how many people to what speed we will roll 20mph 40 mph etc,you then arrive and we go, everything is in film you have the judges at the end,you bring your turbo, slicks,nos,methanol what ever theres no questions ask, so if you are in this type of thing for sure you must be prepare to Dance..........;)

BTW Thanks for allow me to share without been flame.;)

Juan, you have mostly different requirements than most 911 owners - hence your question about HP. With a small, relatively light-weight car like the 911, you need a good balance between horsepower and handling, otherwise you'll be all over the place when driving the car. Since your focus appears to be straight-line acceleration, I can understand your desire to have as much HP on tap as possible.

However, with 600 HP in a 911, I would argue that this type of car would be very difficult to autocross, or to race on a small track. The turbo lag, for one, is very difficult to handle on small tracks (the blown 917s had big problems in this area) and would probably be equally annoying to drive on the street. I think that Porsche has always balanced power with control and reliability for the street cars.

-Wayne