head studs and new timeserts

rw7810 · rw7810's Garage

Just got my parts back from the machine shop and everything looks beautiful! Only concern on my part is I am able to hand install the headstuds in the new timeserts (sp?) with out any double nuts, stud tool, etc. This is both with the old and several new steel studs. Should they be that easy to install and the red locktite just firms it all up??

Porsche_monkey · 09-29-2003, 06:33 AM

I wouldn't worry about it, just torque and loctite them. I am getting my time-serts this week, I will compare them add another post later.

Pat S · 06:55 AM

Hey Me Too!
Who did your case? I had mine done by EBS. I called Jon yesterday and asked about it because mine are WAY TOO LOOSE. Not only can I hand thread them in but they wobble back and forth 1-2mm each. I'm using original steel studs. He was going to research it and call be back but I haven't heard back yet.

I just actually measured the wobble and it turns out that they are up to 1-3mm, vs 1-2mm that I guessed.

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

I had just the opposite problem. I had case-savers installed, and they were so tight, I could not the studs to thread-in to the 135mm spec, and that was using a good Snap-on stud remover. I chased them with a tap, and they ended up being loose enough to wobble. Red locktite was my solution.

rw7810 · rw7810's Garage

Yes, me too, EBS did mine. I hadn't called him yet, but guess I should. Please let me know what you hear. My situation is exactly like yours.

Pat S · 09-30-2003, 06:38 AM

Just got a voicemail he left for me last night. He said slight movement is normal and they should just be red-loctited in. I tried loc-tite this weekend but it won't hold because there is way too much gap.

Porsche_monkey · 09-30-2003, 09:02 AM

Mine are a bit sloppy, but not once the stud is torqued down against the bottom of the E-Z lock. How can they be sloppy once they are torqued? Why not loc-tite one, wait 24 hours and try to remove it?

Pat S · 09-30-2003, 02:26 PM

The problem is, when you set them at the right height, they do not bottom out. Jon is sending me some brand new studs 2-day air. When I get them I'll try them and see if they fit better. Maybe 30 years of heat-cycles have shrunk my studs.

Porsche_monkey · 10-01-2003, 04:33 AM

Your studs only stretch, they can't shrink. I'm stumped, but I would like an answer before I insert my block this week..

Pat S · 05:43 PM

Okay,
EBS sent me a new set of steel studs and the fit the same.

RW710, any other news?

How do we get some of the experts over here to give input?

Here is a link to an avi of the wiggle I am seeing: http://home.comcast.net/~patrick.snyder/headstuds.AVI

rw7810 · rw7810's Garage

Cool and very high tech...yup, exact same wiggle here. Talked to Jon at EBS yesterday and he assures me the looseness is normal and only requires red locktite. I'm not at that stage yet, and in fact not really even started yet. I also ordered new studs because half of mine were not straight. Let me know how the locktite works.

1fastredsc · 10-03-2003, 10:35 AM

Although this isn't directly related to your case savers/timecerts, but i can hand thread studs into my aluminum block. The first 5-10mm of threads are a bit wobbly. After that it's decently snug. Also, i'm not sure but red locktite/permatex red take awhile to go full strength and harden.

Pat S · 10-03-2003, 02:26 PM

I talked with Jon again and will be taking my case down to a race shop he deals with frequently. The do many racing rebuilds through him and hopefully will be able to look and see if this is acceptable to them or if by chance we have a strange set of timcerts...
I'll post the findings next week.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

It's normal for them to wobble slightly sometimes. Just stick them in there with the Locktite and it should be fine. If not, then use a more viscous locking compound than the Loctite (like the stuff they use on some of the later-style head studs).

You don't torque these down - doing so can damage your case, and the savers themselves. Set them to the 135mm height and wait for the compound to dry. There is no torque value or setting...

Hope this helps,

Wayne

Pat S · 10-06-2003, 05:13 PM

Okay,
I'm pressing on...
I took my botttom end to a local shop that has done many rebuilds today and they confirmed that the slop is normal. That makes a handful of experts and hands on guys that confirm they should wiggle a bit.

I find it really amazing though that we measure everything to the hundredth of a mm level, and worry about specs of dust on seals, then we have such amazing play in 24 of the most stressed components in the entire engine.

Thanks for the help again.
Pat

Porsche_monkey · 10-07-2003, 03:45 AM

You only have play when the bolts are not under tension. Once you torque the bolts it's gone. I would not lose any sleep over it.

1fastredsc · 10-07-2003, 05:44 AM

Besides, after the locktite or whatever thread locking chemical you use hardens, it fills the gaps and makes the studs unmovable. So i wouldn't worry.

Porsche_monkey · 10-07-2003, 05:46 AM

I would think you should not loc-tite the studs until you are ready to tension the studs. You don't want the loc-tite curing in the un-tensioned state.

dtw · 10-07-2003, 09:32 AM

The studs will turn if you torque the nuts while the loctite is wet.

Porsche_monkey · 10-07-2003, 09:41 AM

You do not need full torque, you only need some tension.