K&N Filters killed my rings ?!?

[red-beard]

Spoke with my Engine rebuilder today. The internals in the engine are in exceptionally good shape. He isn't going to, but said he could re-use anything internally.

However...the rings were extremely worn. He suspects dirt from the air supply and the first question he asked me was what filtration system I was using. I said K&N and he said replace them.

Has anyone heard this?

Is there a paper filter available which is the same size/shape as the K&N filter?

Oh - the cylinders are barely in spec, soooo I decided to go with replacements.....2.7RS...and the T cams are being replaced with the 2.7RS S cams - factory new! THANKS EBS!

Any one have Carb part reccomendations for this motor?

James

[Bill Verburg]

Yes, thats why I refuse to use anything but the factory filters.


The last 2 engines i've had in my car.

When I raced M/X and TT we tried the oiled foam filters and had no end of trouble. Factory dry paper didn't solve the problem but did improve the situation a lot.

[Doug Zielke]

Proponents of K & N (Krappy) filters will defend them like it's religion. But the fact is they allow much more dirt to pass into the motor.
Want proof (before your rings are worn out)??....

Just remove your Krappy filter, take a bit of grease or oil and coat the interior of the airbox; replace Krappy filter. Now go for a short drive on gravel road. (While you're driving, the fan is sucking in large amounts of dust-laden air).

Now, check the airbox, using a paper towel to wipe up all the dirt that made it past the Krappy filter. Makes you feel real good, don't it?

[911pcars]

Bill wrote:
"When I raced M/X and TT we tried the oiled foam filters and had no end of trouble. Factory dry paper didn't solve the problem but did improve the situation a lot."

Bill. What was wrong with either material?

Sherwood

[Bill Verburg]

We would actuallly find grit on the engine side of the filters, rings and cyl. bores would show p[ronounced wear after only a wekend or two.

The problem was more pronounced on the 2 strokes.

Admittedly the environment was as bad as it gets but the paper elements though they needed changing often worked better.

[viejopatron]

Here's my dos centavos...

Could it be blow-by around the filter? Any filter or strainer is only as good as the installation.

[Bill Verburg]

Here's your change
No

[larrym]

you WERE using KN oil? dry kn's are worse than paper..

Uniflow (motorcycle folks) also have a "sticky" oil they use .. I am using 2 of those on my MGB vintage racer

[beepbeep]

Yupp, open washable/oilable conical filters filter poorly. Ricers like them beacuse of extra sound though.

I have seen a turbocharged car whose impeller was sanded-down by all debris in the "filtered" air...

[red-beard]

Are there filter which will fit the housing, but made of paper?

James

[RoninLB]

Doug Zielke
SCWDP President
Proponents of K & N (Krappy) filters will defend them like it's religion. But the fact is they allow much more dirt to pass into the motor.
=======================================
911pcars
What was wrong with either material?
=======================================
Bill Verburg
Admittedly the environment was as bad as it gets
======================================
beepbeep
HP junkie
open washable/oilable conical filters filter poorly
======================================
red-beard
Are there filter which will fit the housing, but made of paper?
=========================================



My Turn...
I've posted about my hard data oil analysis silicone content with K&N compared to stock on a CIS more than once. And I had the big dirt road pic in Nevada to run the stock paper to extremes to for the comparison.. [if needed plug in name and K&N]
So the K&N was only run on metro NYC clean roads, and the stock on extreme dirt/no hard surface. both started with fresh oil.. and the K&N lost.. and I have hard info to prove it if you need a copy of the oil analysis..

and if the foam matters for routine ricers between a 150k mi engine and a 100k mi engine who cares.. I don't have that luxury.

So...
I'm prepping a carb install and only have the WaterShields with K&N.. and I don't want the stock housing contraption for paper.
Can anyone pry me away from my beloved K&Ns.. Huh .......Ron

[1fastredsc]

Aren't there alternatives to K&N cone filters now, i thought other companies did there own thing now?

[rcwaldo]

Hold a K&N up to a light, you can darn near see right through it! factory paper element for me..

[911pcars]

"Are there filter which will fit the housing, but made of paper?

I searched a few years ago for a paper filter the same size - couldn't find one. If you want to search what's currently out there, look for an element OD of 12" and height of around 4" or so. You can form a round filter into an oval to fit the housing. Let us know what you discover.

BTW, there's another current thread that discusses K&N replacement alternatives.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[Tinker]

I realize the K & N don"t filter as well as a stock paper one.

On my turbo car I use the paper filter only. On my race car I run the K & N. On my daily driver (Toyota with 225k) I have only run the K & N with a good amount of air filter oil.

Tinker

[RoninLB]

"So...
I'm prepping a carb install and only have the WaterShields with K&N.. and I don't want the stock housing contraption for paper.
Can anyone pry me away from my beloved K&Ns.. Huh .......Ron"

had to quote myself

So. I think it's Crager who uses K&N socks on his Webers.. it's a foam covering made of something. it's in his thread.

I need a bright idea. my last bright idea melted 2 headlight filament grounds within 2 minutes of each other..
but I think I'll have to create something ...............Ron

[dhoward]

Bill, if your bikes are getting dirt past the filter, then it's not oiled or installed correctly. Period. My KTMs and KX's airboxes are so clean you could eat out of them. So's everybody elses that I ride with. Why would the manufacturers put oiled foam in them in the first place? Paper filters in a dirt bike? You'd go broke....

[lendaddy]

I raced MX for years and had ZERO troubled with oiled foam filters.

I did however clean and reoil after every weekend.

[Wayne 962]

I'm not a huge fan of K&N filters - the spec is less than the factory spec for filtration...

-Wayne