1972 engine removal advice

2.4T/MFI · 10-31-2003, 12:12 AM

Dear All,

As a long term observer on this forum, it's now my turn to ask for help! I have both of Wayne's books (great reads, both) and the Hayne's manual (for what its worth).

My car is a 1972 T with MFI. I'm replacing the (tired) engine for a freshly rebuilt E spec that is complete with its own MFI, SSI's etc. I'm planning to remove the engine (for the first time) and not the transmission.

I've disconnected almost everything according to the books ready to do the drop. However, could someone who's familiar with the oil pipe layout on the 72 cars please tell me which pipe's need disconnecting. There's the rubber "s-bend" pipe that goes to the bottom of the oil cooler which is no problem, but two under the rear wheel arch connect through the inner wing to the oil filter housing (I assume). One of these pipes runs under the engine and disappears to where I don't know! I presume I need to disconnect it at the inner wing, but how do I get to the other end and what does it connect to?

Also, the engine wiring loom. I've disconnected the plugs at the inner wing on the left side in the engine bay. What else needs disconnecting? Does the loom come away with the engine because it looks like it disappears into the rear bulk head in front of the fiberglass engine cover and I don't see how to discnnect it any further. I've read Wayne's books but am still stumped.

Many thanks for you help.

Dave.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

Dave,
Although I have a 73 at least the electrical system will be the same.

After removing the harness you also need to remove the starter wire that runs from the battery to the starter.(the big fat red cable) That, the speedometer cable, shift coupler, throttle cable and clutch cable all need to be removed from under the bulkhead.

As for the oil lines I removed the hose that comes out the right side underneath the oil cooler and there should be one just forward and above that one. I'll try and post a pic of the oil lines I'm refering to.

2.4T/MFI · 10-31-2003, 06:05 AM

Thanks Tim, a photo would be great. Re- the wiring harness, I can't remove it from the engine because part of it disappears into the fiberglass cover, and presumably connects to the alternator. So, I've got it free from the left hand side of the engine compartment, but it's still attached where it disappears into the shroud and where it disappears through the bulkhead. Does disconnecting the starter free up the bulkead "end", I mean, where does it go to through the bulkhead?!

Thanks for your help!

Dave

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

THe other end of that harness runs to your starter and to the reverse lights on the transmission.

Don't worry about the alternator hookups they won't get in the way. Just leave the 14 pin connector lying on the engine and it will be fine.

Are you removing the transmission as well?

Rot 911 · 10-31-2003, 06:17 AM

Here is my '72 ready to be reinstalled and you can see the oil line clearly. Also I do my drops with the tranny so remember to disconnect the wires from the reverse light switch on the tranny.

2.4T/MFI · 10-31-2003, 06:54 AM

OK, thanks very much guys, it's much clearer now. I wasn't going to remove the tranny too, is it easier to do so? However, after looking at the engine-tranny join, there may be transmission fluid leaking out. I can't tell for sure (it could be coming from the square cover on the tranny), but that would need fixing before the new engine goes in, meaning the tranny MAY have to come out. I was not going to remove the tranny, but see if the tranny seal was leaking when I split the engine/tranny, then remove the tranny separately if needed. I'll take your advice on this.

By the way, Kurt, I have a 1959 Frogeye sprite too (it's my hill climb car).

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I thought about trying to remove the engine by itself and I know it's quicker to do it that way if you have experience. But in my experience (2 drops) I've found it easier to just remove the whole assembly.

dtw · 10-31-2003, 07:47 AM

Pull the trans and motor as an assembly. If you have experience and fully equipped shop and lift, pulling the motor only is no big deal.

Shouldn't be any trans fluid where the case and trans meet up. That's the bell housing where the clutch lives. No fluid in there.

While you are replacing your motor you should probably replace the input shaft and shift shaft seals on the trans. Cheap parts and convenient while everything is apart.

john walker's workshop · 10-31-2003, 08:26 AM

gear oil in the bellhousing would be coming from the mainshaft seal. a big job on a '72, because it installs from inside the diff housing, and the entire gear cluster must be removed to do it. not one of their better ideas.

2.4T/MFI · 10-31-2003, 08:31 AM

John,
I was worried that was the case. I can't be sure until I split the engine and tranny, presumably then I will be able to see if the leak really is coming from the mainshaft seal. If it is, can I remove (and replace!) the gear cluster myself (never before taken a gearbox apart), or do I trust a "professional"? Wayne, when's your gearbox rebuild book coming out?!

john walker's workshop · 10-31-2003, 08:42 AM

i'm sure we can walk you thru it. not rocket science, but there are a few things to look out for. of course, once you're in there, you may want freshen it up. kind of silly not to at that point.

dtw · 10-31-2003, 09:56 AM

Oooh for some reason I was thinking fluid at the TOP of the trans/engine mating surface, where I can't imagine a trans leak would get to. But yep, if there's fluid under the trans at the joint, could definitely be a mainshaft leak.

John - Are there any threads on this main seal replacement? I was actually going to do it this weekend before installing my freshly rebuilt engine. How much time would a newbie need to budget? Are there other supplies, seals, or gaskets needed?

Darn 72s.

Jay Auskin · 11-01-2003, 09:11 AM

Another good reason to remove the engine & trans together (aside from being easier) is to check the shifter rod seal. Mine leaked about 2 quarts into the tunnel where it connects to the shifter. People say it can be changed in-vehicle, but I really wouldn't want to try it. It's very cheap, and easy to replace when the trans is removed.

2.4T/MFI · 11-12-2003, 04:04 AM

Dear All,

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. They boosted my confidence and I managed to pull the engine + transmission on my own at the weekend. Unfortunately, there was some transmission oil at the end of the mainshaft where it goes into the clutch, which I presume means the mainshaft seal is leaking. I assume this accounts for the clutch judder I was experiencing recently, even though the clutch and flywheel are new (less than 10k). Also, 5th gear was a little noisy, but other than that, it shifted and drove very well. I don't know if I have the confidence to delve into the transmission and fix it.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

The mainshaft seal replacement is a 5-minute job (okay 15-minutes), and you don't have to dive into the transmission. It's very similar to the flywheel seal...

-Wayne

2.4T/MFI · 11-13-2003, 03:20 AM

Wayne,

Thanks for the encouragement, but it's a '72 915 transmission, and John Walker's comment was:
gear oil in the bellhousing would be coming from the mainshaft seal. a big job on a '72, because it installs from inside the diff housing, and the entire gear cluster must be removed to do it. not one of their better ideas.