3.3 turbo spec

[adomakin]

ive found a guy that can build me a 3.3 turbo engine that he feels should be good for 400 reliable horses. this is the spec below

K27 turbo
c2 cams
1 bar boost
powerhaus headers

does this sound right?
are those mods sensible for a street engine?

Andy,

UK

[adomakin]

ok, ive just read the "read me first" and i have posted this in the main 911 board as well, so i went to delete it and it wont let me. just thought id put it in writing

[magic930]

you might consider upgrading your intercooler if you are going to run at 1 bar or more all the time. Also I think powerhaus headers are B&B headers.

[Wayne 962]

Make sure you want an engine lacking low-end power, and a big boost about 3000 RPM...

-Wayne

[adomakin]

ok. is there another way of reaching that figure without having to put up with the lack of low end power? im also open to a non turbo setup but i was led to belive that i wont get 400hp easily using a normally aspirated engine.

Andy,

UK

[garibaldi]

Whats considered reliable? All you listed that he told you was basic bolt ons. Whats he going to build into the bottom end to make it reliable- thats what you need to worry about.

[beepbeep]

I already posted on other forum but i'll do it here as well. ROW CIS will produce fuel for upp to 400hp but it's already on it's utter margin.

altough it's possible to have a 400hp 930 engine i believe EFI, Carrera intake, SC cams and KKK K27 7200 will produce 400hp at much lower boost and with some nice driveability, thanx to EFI ultimate tunability.

Then you can do tricks as delaying ignition to spool up turbo quicker, mapping it on higher RPM's etc etc.

C/R is already very low, so it's nothing to worry about.

You can generally say that just swapping out CIS will free at least 40hp. Bump the boost a little and you will be ther in no time.

OTOH, boosting heaps and sucking trough that CIS barn-door...well it can be done but it's not the most efficient way.

[adomakin]

nice one blokes, thanks for the advice

[dwightp]

Andy,

Man, I hate to say this as it just confuses the issue more for you, but here it goes. Give Waynes words a strong second thought. I'm not sure he is advocating a N/A or not.

I was were you are several years ago. I drove a 930 with a tad over 400HP (chassis dyno). I also drove a lower HP Normal Aspirated 911. I chose the NA route. And I'm glad I did!!! I don't have bragging rights to high HP numbers which is fine. It's a matter of opinion and this will likely get some responses. I'd hate for you to shoot for some HP number at the cost of a lower and better (opinion again) shape HP and torque curves.

my .02 worth...

Best of luck either way you choose to go.

[adomakin]

wise words dwightp. what sort of power figure difference are we talking about here?

[garibaldi]

Again........

Originally posted by garibaldi
Whats considered reliable? All you listed that he told you was basic bolt ons. Whats he going to build into the bottom end to make it reliable- thats what you need to worry about.

[adomakin]

to be honest garibaldi, i dont know!

we have only really talked about what was needed to reach that sort of power level. im sure there are other parts/mods required to make this engine a reliable unit. what are your views on other critical mods/bits?

[dwightp]

"what sort of power figure difference are we talking about here?"

MMM. I really hate to speculate as there are many more individuals with more experience to offer opinions. Maybe do a search on the thread of guys doing 3.6l swaps. Of course, if your starting with a 930, you have that 4-speed tranny and gear ratios to consider also. You might be looking at around 290-300 HP and nice flat 260 ish ft-lb TQ (engine dyno)? Sooo many variables though. Tranny, suspension, brakes, aero, cooling, driving school, etc. There are many others out here that can offer an opinion. I'd guess it wouldn't take much to get a high response thread on the subject if you phrase the question right...or wrong..whatever the case may be. lol

I'd love to talk about my figures, but I told myself I wouldn't go there for various reasons. I can say I am very pleased going the NA route.

Best of luck! Exciting phase of the project...clean sheet of paper.

[adomakin]

cheers dwight, Here we go..............................

[Wayne 962]

The only true way to really fight the lack of low-end torque is to double-up on the turbos and have one for each range. However, this is very expensive, complicated, and typically requires an engine management system.

Indeed there are other tweaks you can make, but as with many things in life, you have to compromise something...

-Wayne

[WERK I]

Andy,
I really think the HP numbers your mechanic quoted(400FWHP) are a bit optimistic. I also think the cam selection(C2) is not the ideal choice either. The SC grind is a better choice that matches the K27 better. I have a K27-7006 turbo on mine and it seems to run out of flow by the time the engine gets into the 5K RPM range. The C2 in contrast, is just getting into the "sweet-spot" of its efficency at that point. The SC grind is a much better solution for the engine and that turbo. I agree with the other listers that an IC upgrade is in order. Either the Factory C2 Turbo IC or Kokeln are highly recommended. With all the mods mentioned, the transformation is phenomenal!

Dave

[john walker's workshop]

a recent 87 930 rebuild for a customer, that put out a tad over 400 RWHP included: intakes opened to 41mm, billet injector blocks 41mm, 964 108 degree center cams by webcam, stock p+cs, K27/11 turbo, C2 turbo intercooler, ARP studs and rod bolts, balance, boost enrichment device that when dyno'd, didn't seem to be needed, B+B headers and muffler. throws nice flames too. the bottom end, like taking off from a stop, is about the same as a stock 930, in spite of the porting, but it gets going pretty quickly after that.

[garibaldi]

I would run the compression up to higher than what most people would use, that will give you more low end, match the cam properly, and dont use as much boost up top.

[adomakin]

thanks guys. so much to think about!

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by garibaldi
I would run the compression up to higher than what most people would use, that will give you more low end, match the cam properly, and dont use as much boost up top.

That's a very good idea. Most people can't keep their hands off of that "boost knob" though.

It's a trade-off. To get more power on the low end, you need to run higher compression, with less power (boost) on the top. Or spend a lot of $$$ and run twin turbos. Maximum power at higher RPMs means starting with a relatively low compression motor that's not going to be quick off the line...

-Wayne