Synthetic Oil

[strep]

My mechanic told me that a quick fix to my smoking problem(my car, not me). Is synthetic oil. Because it doesn't burn like oil does. Is this true. At startup she smokes, and when I take off from idle when hot
Thanks.

[sammyg2]

BS.
Synthetic will smoke just like regular oil does.
If he thinks it will seal better and stop the leakage past the rings or valve guides, I really doubt it unless it can reduce the gumming or fouling that might be causing the rings to stick. Still sounds like BS.

[DonE]

No.

I slowed the smoking in my 930 by increasing the viscosity - I added one quart of Lucas Oil Synthetic additive. I used one quart of oil every 400 miles and after the Lucas Oil, it went to 600 miles.

Also, during my tear-down this weekend, every internal part of my motor was coated in oil. Or in other words, there was a heavy film of oil coating parts like the cams, rockers, crank, etc, etc. Impressive stuff.

[Porsche_monkey]

If only it were that simple....

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by strep

At startup she smokes, and when I take off from idle when hot

how much oil are you burning ?

and I've stretched the spark plug oil fouling by using straight 50w on other than 911 engines.

[garibaldi]

Synthetic sucks

[jgparker]

Christian,

Could you elaborate? I understand why synthetic is a bad idea for break-in. I also understand that it can leak more than organic oils. Generaly, I thought it was beter oil. Is there more to the story?

Thanks,

JP

[Craig 930 RS]

20/50 may help

[Henry Schmidt]

Heavier oils, snake oil (oil additives) you might just as well say a prayer.
Just like electrical, "when you let the smoke out , it's time for major repair"
Good luck

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
"when you let the smoke out , it's time for major repair"

Or "Its time to get used to driving a car that smokes."

[garibaldi]

It just cannot stand high unit loading. I beleive that are SAE papers written on this. I have used it, its alright for some applications, but if I had a motor I was going to really hump, I woudl run a straight weight dinosaur oil. No additives, no BS.

[RoninLB]

the ability of an oil to not coke in upper piston area is imp on out type of engines imo.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally posted by RoninLB
the ability of an oil to not coke in upper piston area is imp on out type of engines imo.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN ?

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN ?

our air cooling doesn't provide the cooling necessary for use with routine dino oil.. unless you have a dyno oil that is superior to Mobil 1 for maintaining a high temp oil film. The 4,000+ deg combustion temps, even with excellent top piston heat boundary layers under stable EGTs, being transported to air cooled cylinders is a poor envelope.

fwiw... Mobil 1 15w-50 has the highest rating of all Mobil 1 flavors.

[DonE]

Originally posted by garibaldi
It just cannot stand high unit loading. I beleive that are SAE papers written on this. I have used it, its alright for some applications, but if I had a motor I was going to really hump, I woudl run a straight weight dinosaur oil. No additives, no BS.

I need to send you the scientific data that Royal Purple does on their oils vs. dino oil, both in automtive and industrial environments. For shear strength (and shear strength longevity), high boiling point and cleaning properties, synthetic and dino oils are not even in the same family - synthetic is far superior. I think there is mention of sythetic's heat transfer capabilities vs. dino too. But this is splitting hairs - dino oil is completely capable of handling any Porsche (race) motor if changed regularly, and a quality oil is used. Alex Job uses dino for GT races and synthetic for enduros.

As for additives, you don't need them in a healthy, well maintained engine. However, I use Lucas Oil in both the 930 (which is now being rebuilt) and my 160,000 mile Powerstroke to limit oil consumption - it works, so whats the problem?

[garibaldi]

The scientific data is great, it all look good on paper and in a controlled environment.

I have hard data and practical expereince though with running straight dino oil vs synthetics that woudl defy any of their lab results though. It doesnt do as well under severe conditions in the motors that I have done and seen.

It may be true that the additive packages and detergents help clean, but that isnt oil, thats just more stuff that gets deposited in the motor when it get burned up in the combustion chamber.

The higher bioling point as well- but the boiling point or temp that an oil will coke up is so high, higher than even extremely stressed engines see, that, unless you are on your way to losing the whole motor, the higher boiling threshold is nill. If any motor runs that hot to begin with, its in trouble no matter what kind of oil you have

[garibaldi]

Originally posted by RoninLB
our air cooling doesn't provide the cooling necessary for use with routine dino oil.. unless you have a dyno oil that is superior to Mobil 1 for maintaining a high temp oil film. The 4,000+ deg combustion temps, even with excellent top piston heat boundary layers under stable EGTs, being transported to air cooled cylinders is a poor envelope.

fwiw... Mobil 1 15w-50 has the highest rating of all Mobil 1 flavors.

What kind of motor do you have? and has it melted yet? Nothing would live at 4000 degrees, maybe you meant 2000 degrees. Even still, any oil woudl cook at that temp synthetic or not. The issue is this in regards to that, any blowby you get up into the combustion chamber, will obviously burn oil, now woudl you rather burn oil, and have its petroleum byproducts left behind in tems of its chamical makeup, or woudl you rather have a petroleum base stock, or syntheitc base stock, paraffins, and additive package, and detergents that will all now be subject to direct combustion flame fronts, and get burned and have those deposits left as well?

Normal oil temps run anywhere from ambient to 250-300 degrees. DOnt be fooled, the 911 oil system gives a oil temp after its been cooled, stick a thermocouple in your sump plate and see what the temp is of the oil after its been run through the motor- youd faint. Anyhow, oil will cook at much lower temps. I still prefer the conventional straight weight, but people run sythetics and prefer them based on little more than marketing hype and the fact that the car came with it, or everyone else is doing it.

[RoninLB]

"What kind of motor do you have? "
----- Take a wild guess.

" and has it melted yet?"
----- Take a wild guess.

"Nothing would live at 4000 degrees"
----- Except combustion temps as stated

" maybe you meant 2000 degrees."
----- My wild guess is that your thinking EGTs ?

"Even still, any oil woudl cook at that temp synthetic or not."
-----maybe your thinking top piston rings reach 2,000deg? I don't think so? Try a wild guess at 350-400deg?

" The issue is this in regards to that, any blowby you get up into the combustion chamber, will obviously burn oil, now woudl you rather burn oil, and have its petroleum byproducts left behind in tems of its chamical makeup, or woudl you rather have a petroleum base stock, or syntheitc base stock, paraffins, and additive package, and detergents that will all now be subject to direct combustion flame fronts, and get burned and have those deposits left as well?"
------- Can you explain that again ?

"Normal oil temps run anywhere from ambient to 250-300 degrees."
------ So what !
Please elaborate how that's relative to piston top rings ?

"DOnt be fooled, the 911 oil system gives a oil temp after its been cooled"
------ Really. How interesting.

" , stick a thermocouple in your sump plate and see what the temp is of the oil after its been run through the motor- youd faint. "
----- For what reason would I want to do this? I don't want to faint.

"Anyhow, oil will cook at much lower temps."
----- My wild guess is that your talking about total engine oil after it's complete cycle, not specific to the portion exposed to top rings ?

" I still prefer the conventional straight weight, but people run sythetics and prefer them based on little more than marketing hype and the fact that the car came with it, or everyone else is doing it. "
----- ok... Whatever you say.

enjoy

[snowman]

Synthetic oil is FAR FAR surerior to ANY dino oil. All synthetics are not alike. Mobil one is very good, Red Line is much better (and twice the price). Red line dosen't leave any ash when it burns, and it burns at much higher temps than other synthetics.

The only reason dino oil might SEEM better is that it leaves a lot of crud when it burns. THat crud may help shore up leaking rings to some extent, not a better lube, but a better plug for the leaking rings. I do not feel this "shoring"up the rings is of any benefit, only a cosmetic one, one t hat "seems" to work "better" than synthetic.

The fact is that modern synthetic oils, especially Red LIne, allow much more power to be developed by an engine, the use of much smaller bearings, consequently much less power loss, less friction, higher temp stability, better additive performance. and on and on. NASCAR is using HONDA bearings in chevy engines, because of the performance of synthetic oil. Honda bearings are much smaller than Chevy bearings, resutling in MORE power,less engine breaking,,,

If you want to read some REAL test reorts on synthetic oils, I would suggest going to the http://www.redlineoil.com site for an education.

A Quote from Red LIne
"The world’s top racing teams and most discriminating enthusiasts use Red Line Oil products exclusively. There may be a different sponsor on the outside, but chances are its Red Line Oil on the inside."

Any racer knows this is a true statement.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by snowman
Mobil one is very good, Red Line is much better

, and it burns at much higher temps than other synthetics.

ditto, ditto