What John said. "Well?" :D

Weeellllllll!

Hello?

178.5 right?????

assuming we are still open? I say 185
 

I'm at 185 if no one else has that number.

really curious now.

Jeff

happy Thanksgiving!

235 , only free spot...

172
x
x
x
x
x
x
178.5
x
180
x
x
x
x
185
186
187 twice but Kevin bailed ;)
188
189 (twice)
190
191
192 (twice)
193
194
x
196
x
x
x
200
x
x
x
x
205
x
x
207.5
208
x
210
x
x
x
214
215
231.6
235

How about we all throw in $5 and winner splits the pot with the new Dad so he'll tell us the final number?

....::: UPDATE :::....

Hey all. Yes I'm a new Dad (for the 3rd time) of a new son (for the 3rd time again... all boys).

I've not dynoed the car yet because I ripped out the interior to install a 993 interior.

The project is about done (dash wise). I'm just waiting for the interior guy to come over and install the new head liner so I can install the windshield... so I can drive the car.

This should be done this coming week, and I'll have the car on the dyno first thing.

I probably should have dynoed the car first, but what started out as just removing parts of the interior, got carried away after reading a thread here on Pelican about how easy it was to pop out the windshield... And it went downhill from there !

Anyway, I should have the car on the dyno by the end of next week.

And... I will most certainly post the dyno results, good, bad, or ugly!

Stay tuned~!

TonyG

Whatever you dyno at deduct 18.72 HP for the 993 interior! :)

Congratulations on your third child.

We're all impatiently waiting for the results.

I am a little late on this contest but looks like its still open so heres my estimate 173hp at rear wheels. Note this ain't so great as my 912 measured 145hp at rear wheels at 7800rpm, totally "stock" mind you.

Thats adjusted for 2 more cylinders, and 2 points less compression.

.... ::: UPDATE :::...

OK Gentlemen...

As you all know I've been a little stuck due to a sudden urge to rip out the entire interior and replace it with a black 993 interior (old was brown/tan). This was a MUCH bigger job than I anticipated especially since all the glass had to be removed, and part of the dash had to be cut apart (read: late style large vent dash installed).

I was stuck because I had the glass (all of the glass) out of the car so I could get a new head liner installed (smooth black), and with no glass in the car, I couldn't drive it.

Well... the interior people just finished installing all the glass (new windshield because I cracked it removing it :-( , and the head liner, rear package tray, rear quarters, A / B pillar vinyl, etc... Just waiting for the new carpet the door top pads, and the recovered center console.

But... the pieces I'm waiting for aren't stopping me from driving the car... so I'm going to see if I can get some dyno time this Saturday and get a couple of runs laid down so we can settle this contest once and for all!

PS> I'll never buy another 911 that has the incorrect color interior/head liner EVER #^!#%!

TonyG

I can sympathize with the interior Tony. I changed mine from "live leather" (read orange) to black. What a total PITA. Turned out nice but I'd have to agree never again.

and that was 4 days and one Saturday ago.....

...::: UPDATE :::...

The DynoJet has been scheduled.

Here's the details:

DC Performance
3370 S. Livonia Ave.
Los Angeles 90034
Tel: 310-841-6996

Wednesday 12/8/2004 at 11:00am

wooo hooo


TonyG


PS> If it is raining, I will have to cancel as I don't drive the 911 in the rain. The forcast indicated it will be sunny and clear, so....

... ::: UPDATE - DYNO RUN COMPLETE! ::: ...


Folks... I've got the dyno sheet here in my hand. But, I've got to get my scanner up and running, to scan it, to post it.

So, if you want to make changes to your "guess", do it now.

The cut-off will be 3:00pm PST Today!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you wish you knew what the numbers were? mu ha ha

3PM PST!

TonyG

Numbers dude...just the numbers :) We didn't bet on curves.

...::: HERE'S THE DYNO CHART :::...


NO MODIFICATIONS TO YOUR ESTIMATE/GUESS AFTER 3PM PST WILL BE ALLOWED.

It's pretty clear that there's more power in the midrange to be had after I rejet the PMO's to run a little leaner in the midrange.

http://www.tonygarcia.org/911SC/tony...911sc_dyno.gif


So who is the winner?

TonyG

ME! I guessed 200 at the wheels and if you round up your 199.8...

I'll use your gas for my 3.5L dyno runs coming up!:)

Ralph

Impressive! Could you do me a favor and just relist the specs as tested?

Carrera3.5L

You don't win. The deal was, "closest without going over" (see page 1 for the rules)

TonyG

jluetjen

-'82 34mm port 911SC engine. Stock rebuild with the exceptions listed below.

-Stock pistons, stock heads, new rings, rebuilt cylinder heads, all new valvetrain, all new head studs, all new timing gear... pretty much everything brand new except we didn't split the cases.

-20/21 cams
-SSI headers
-MB911 2in/2out muffler
-40mm PMO carbs
-rebuilt distributor recurved with straight mechanical advance running 32 degrees total advance

Dyno run was with straight 91 octane pump gas.


I think there's another 10-15RWHP with some more ignition timing, and some air/fuel ratio adjustments.

TonyG

PS> Actual HP was over 205RWHP! (without SAE correction factor)

I see the correction factor on the bottom of the sheet but wonder why the numbers are not SAE corrected on the graph? Nice engine either way.

This on a Dynojet 243?

rdane

The numbers you see on the dynochart including the graph are all SAE corrected.

If you look at the top right, you'll see that the correction factor is SAE.

At the bottom, you can see exactly what SAE equaled at that particular moment in time. In this case the SAE correction factor was .97, meaning that the actual HP was higher.

Thanks for the compliment!

I'm gonna see if I can squeeze another 10+RWHP out of the engine with timing and a/f corrections.


TonyG

I'm impressed. That engine is running peak HP intake gas velocities much higher then other engines that I've seen. Most 911 engines develop peak HP no higher then about 100 to 104 meters per second of peak air speed at the tightest point in the intake path. Your engine is pulling about 111 meters per second, behind only Grady's 2.8E at 114 m/s. I suspect that the 20/21 camshaft's small overlap makes it less sensative to intake restrictions compared to camshafts with more overlap. The trade-off is a somewhat peaky powerband with the peak HP engine speed occurring less then 1000 RPM above the peak torque engine speed. Normally in 911's there about 2000 RPM between those two points on the rev range.

A couple of thoughts for the next step: I'm not sure that bigger venturi will help given the 34 mm intake ports. But since the venturi are easy to swap out, it wouldn't hurt to try. Otherwise you may not be able to get many more ponies out of the top end. Given the narrow rev range, a close ratio gear box would also help to keep the engine in it's sweet spot. Alternatively trying to fill out torque curve some as you described with the ignition timing and carb jetting might be productive.

....:::AND THE WINNER IS..... :::...
(SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG)

camgrinder @ 196 rwhp

John Dougherty - http://www.drcamshafts.com


Unless someone comes forward to dispute this, I will presume that camgrinder is the winner.

I'll give it until tomorrrow for any disputes to be brought forth.

TonyG

Tony - I'm impressed, too. Great work!

Wow wow wow !!

John - how do you think such a setup as Tony's would react to the larger earlier SC ports?

Great stuff. Glad I lost (190) and the horse power was higher. I get 193.8157 with the correction factor, that'd make 193 the winner????

My factory Porsche owners manual indicates that the factory power is 172Hp (crank) for the 1982 USA model 911SC.

This means that the 40mm PMO's, 20/21 cams, SSI, recurved distributor, and 2in/2out muffler are worth a combined total of about 70 crank HP!

205 Actual Wheel HP (SAE is used for comparision purposes)
------------------------
.85

=> 241 crank hp

=> 241 crank hp - 172 crank hp (stock)

=> 69 crank hp (and possibly more) increase over stock


Looks like Bruce Anderson is incorrect in his calculations with respect to the added HP for each modification (which people have quoted).

Thoughts? Corrections?

TonyG

KevinS

The correction factor is already factored in.

Without the correction factor of .97, the actual wheel hp is 205RWHP.

TonyG

Even better.....................

Thoughts? A few...

3.0 liter, 9.8:1 pistons, 964 or 20/21 cams with SSIs and 2/2 mufflers typically get 190/195hp at the wheels. Getting 5 to 10HP over that from the addition of carbs is impressive.

As John noted very good gains but I am really surprised at the torgue curve compared to every other 20/21 cam I have seen.
A lot peaker than expected and drops off sooner as well.

Good data points and a great engine Tony. Well done! Looks like everyone is surprised but Camgrinder :)

Damn you and the fine print!:) And here I was thinking I was going to get a free tank of piss poor 91 octane.

Good job anyway!

Ralph

EDIT: If you tell people the motor makes 199 rwhp, then John wins. If you round up (and I know you will) and tell your friends your motor makes 200 rwhp, then I should win, right?

Boys,
I think we all won today. Tony this was a hella fun thread.

Please tell me, a Cali newbie, how the heck you gonna smog that thing? I need the secrets so I can toss my cat and muff!

With early 3.0 sc heads I would expect another 10 hp at the peak, which wold be closer to 6500. I think the dip in the torque curve can be tuned out and another 5 to 8 ft lbs picked up.
Of course the engine needs a different cam :)

Is that $60 bounty in cash or check ?

Tuned out with venturis, right? Or by timing?

Different camshafts? What do you recommend?

With pmo carbs I like closer lobe centers. like 108 degrees. this along with some more duration will pick the engine up in the 4500 to 6500 range. Im a little surprised Tony's engine fell off after 6000.
How is the distributor advance curve set? If the advance comes in too fast it can hurt torque.
When I see a dip in the torque curve like this, it usually means an exhaust system or intake system length. In a back up pull the dip might not show, meaning the engine just skipped a beat on this pull.