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H.G.P.'s Avatar
 
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Practice honing...any tips?...feel free to hone in......

I bought a hone, looks somewhat like the pic on Rebuild book p. 54 diagram 3-17 left pic. The instructions state it's a:

A. 3pc 220 grit 4" stones
B. Adjustable honing tension.
C. 2"-7" capacity

Will this hone be ok?

I have one practice cylinder to create hatch with.

I have Biral cylinders. One practice Biral cylinder.

It uses a drill which I have a variable speed B & D drill.

Any help on this test run will be appreciated!

(When the real thing takes place I have no margin for error as these cylinders are very hard to get in good condition)

THANKS!
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:09 AM
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use a brush hone, not one with solid stones. solid hones are only used on new, perfectly round, unworn bores.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:18 AM
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OK. Thanks John

Kirk
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:50 AM
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Those hone stones are used to make your cylinder round again, if thats what you want. They will enlarge the hole slightly so this must be considered. Normally 3 sets of stones are used, one a course to round out the cylinder and set it to almost exactly the final dimension, the next to bring it to almost dead nuts onto the final dimension, and the final to produce a finish that the rings will seat on. Possible a final plateau hone using grape style hones or special plauteau honing brushes are used.
Once the hole is perfactly round again, use grape ball type hone or plauteau hone to put final finish on bore. Do this if you are going to use new pistons.

The stones you have are something near the final hone but less than the plauteau hone. They would be ok for a 1950 style engine.

If you just want to re ring and do not want to re do cylinders as new, then just use the grape ball type hone to freshen up the cylinders to accept the new rings. This is most likely what you want to do. These silicone ball type hones are about $50 at your local auto parts store.

To hone your cylinders do the following:

1. Get a couple quarts of transmission fluid for cutting oil.

2. Place the cylinder in a spot where you can run the hone at leat half way past it, both up and down.. Suggest using a couple of paint cans to help stop the oil from spraying everywhere.

3. Douse the cylinder and hone with tranny fluid and start honing, up and down at about 3 or 4 times a second using about 600 to 800 RPM on the drill. Make at least 10 to 15 passes.

you should have a cross hatch pattern on the cylinder as a result. The angle between the hatch should be around 30 degrees to 40 degrees. If so you have done it. If not try again.

Lots and lots of tranny fluid is very important, it cleans out the debree and insures clean cuts.

These hatch cuts should never go away, they carry the oil to lube the cylinder while the engine is running. If your engine was properly cared for you will still see the original cross hatch. Even if you do see original cross hatch you need to re surface the cylinders for new rings.

Last edited by snowman; 01-04-2005 at 10:30 PM..
Old 01-04-2005, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowman
Those hone stones are used to make your cylinder round again, if thats what you want. They will enlarge the hole slightly so this must be considered. Normally 3 sets of stones are used, one a course to round out the cylinder and set it to almost exactly the final dimension, the next to bring it to almost dead nuts onto the final dimension, and the final to produce a finish that the rings will seat on. Possible a final plateau hone using grape style hones or special plauteau honing brushes are used.
Once the hole is perfactly round again, use grape ball type hone or plauteau hone to put final finish on bore. Do this if you are going to use new pistons.

The stones you have are something near the final hone but less than the plauteau hone. They would be ok for a 1950 style engine.

If you just want to re ring and do not want to re do cylinders as new, then just use the grape ball type hone to freshen up the cylinders to accept the new rings. This is most likely what you want to do. These silicone ball type hones are about $50 at your local auto parts store.

To hone your cylinders do the following:

1. Get a couple quarts of transmission fluid for cutting oil.

2. Place the cylinder in a spot where you can run the hone at leat half way past it, both up and down.. Suggest using a couple of paint cans to help stop the oil from spraying everywhere.

3. Douse the cylinder and hone with tranny fluid and start honing, up and down at about 3 or 4 times a second using about 600 to 800 RPM on the drill. Make at least 10 to 15 passes.

you should have a cross hatch pattern on the cylinder as a result. The angle between the hatch should be around 30 degrees to 40 degrees. If so you have done it. If not try again.

Lots and lots of tranny fluid is very important, it cleans out the debree and insures clean cuts.

These hatch cuts should never go away, they carry the oil to lube the cylinder while the engine is running. If your engine was properly cared for you will still see the original cross hatch. Even if you do see original cross hatch you need to re surface the cylinders for new rings.


Terrific information. Thank you Jack. Any particular tranny fluid necessary? I'll check around for the silicone ball hone as soon as possible. (Yes, my cylinders still have the orgininal cross hatch visible)

Thanks again!


Kirk.
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:51 PM
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if you tried to hone a cylinder round with one of those drill motor operated lightweight stone hones, you would be honing until next month. then the cylinder would be oversized and useless. a machine shop uses a heavy duty stone hone to do the final sizing, after the cylinder has been bored slightly undersize. it's used in conjunction with a dial bore gauge to be sure of the finished size.
using a stone hone in a used cylinder would leave some surfaces untouched by the hone because used cylinders tend to be irregular, particularly just below the top edge, where the rings wear it. that's why you need a brush style, or berry bush hone.
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:27 AM
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ATF any type will do.

Johns pretty much correct about trying to use the stones you have, however in the proper hands of a skilled person the three step process I discribed, using 3 differen't grit stones, has been done sucessfully for many years, by hand with a hand drill. Some old timers even claim to be better than any machine. Myself I use one of those fancy semi automatic Sunnen hones and still have to "fix" some of the holes.

I forgot one important step if you were redoing the cylinder for new pistons. A torque plate, simulating the cylinder head with bolts torqued down, should be used. The head bolts distort the cylinder slightly. Using the torque plate insures the holes are still round after the heads are bolted back on. Also each cylinder should be sized to exactly match each piston. These are two extra steps usually taken for race engines. Definately a machine shop job for most of us.

check out photos in the following thread

Porsche torque plates

Last edited by snowman; 01-05-2005 at 02:28 PM..
Old 01-05-2005, 01:41 PM
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Results:

The flex "grape" hone resulted in 5 cylinders that from this amateur's point of view appear outstanding. (all except one..see below)

The five came out with hatch extremely symmetrical, how I would define as "fine hairs" along the insides of the walls.

Now for the sixth: This also came out with "fine hairs" hatch, but not as many at the top (closest to the head mate area).

Though no. 6 is smooth to the touch, there are numerous small rusty looking spots. It looks like the rings will slide, but I can't figure the rust spots when the other do not show this many?
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:59 PM
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maybe it's just rust pitted, and you need to find another one. pretty common.
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Old 01-07-2005, 07:24 PM
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Yup, find another cylinder. Ask for guarentee that replacement will not have same problem.
Old 01-07-2005, 09:14 PM
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