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Unless the engine has radical, go-fast internals, they say the magic number for an external cooler is 2.7 liters. Yours is 2 liters. Does it have high comporession? 5-blade fan and slow pulley? Hot heat range spark plugs? Retarded ignition? Does it see high revs continuously? Is the ambient air temp. high?

210F is quite normal. I wouldn't worry about oil temps. unless they consistently hover around 230+F.

I suggest breaking it in first, then see where you are before proceeding.

Sherwood
Old 03-05-2005, 12:01 AM
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Sherwood,
thanks for the pointers - no radical go-fast internals.

My engine has only got up to 210F or so (212F when it was 95F outside). Having spent the time and effort on it (or really money), I got a little concerned when I had people telling me it should run cooler (and more than one). On the limited driving I did do, though, it really showed that it could easily run cooler. I found this out by taking up a winding small mountain road when it was about 65F outside. It got up to 210F but when I went down the other side it shot down to 180F. But the other day in traffic it wouldn't come down from 210F even when I got some open stretches and revved up to 4,000. This lead me to believe that a little more cooling could make it run nice and cool (not too cool). And you have to remember that I am thinking of this prospectively, when I really will let it go (post run-in). This is where the shroud with the duct idea came from as the engine cooler hardly gets any blown air in a '67 stock config.
The ignition has been everywhere and making things difficult. My distributer is a little tired at 37 yrs. and has been sent away to be rebuilt. Then I will be putting on a M&W ignition system to go with it.

The tensioners checked out fine also. They are the original spring ones that were converted with a kit to sort of solid. At this point I am going to leave them as is.

But you are right, I just need to drive it at this point.
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Last edited by Fred999; 03-05-2005 at 12:34 AM..
Old 03-05-2005, 12:32 AM
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Fred

Your temperature behavoiur sounds fine to me, I drive my 73 2.4E daily in traffic and 180 is 'warmed up' but 200-220 normal for driving in traffic, It sounds high but you have to remember 212 is 100C and most modern watercooled cars run their oil at 90C (194F) so for an air/oil cooled engine its fine, Hot would be prolonged periods over 220.

When I'm open road cruising the range is 190-210 depending on how fast i'm going

HTH

Neven
Old 03-05-2005, 02:41 AM
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NevenM,
open road cruising in NZ sounds great. I had been living in the US for the last decade or more to come back to Oz and find that traffic congestion here has really become a problem (in the city of Melbourne). Just to get my little car out on the road takes 30-40 min of crappy lights and stop and start stuff.
Temp wise, I was hitting 210F when it was 20-25C outside, which is not too hot (ambient tempwise).
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Last edited by Fred999; 03-05-2005 at 03:35 AM..
Old 03-05-2005, 03:21 AM
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Fred

Yes but aren't you amased at how well an early 911 behaves in traffic, My 911 had been off the raod for 10+ years and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to use it daily, but i can.

I've never been to Melbourne but have just organised a long weekend in April there. Hope its as good as everyone says.

Neven
Old 03-05-2005, 01:52 PM
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Fred999 check your oil t-stat, mine was bad and I jumped through alot of unneeded hoops becouse of it, BTW Porsche put an externaly oil coolers on all S's at 2.2L. I live where it gets hot and like to flogg my car. I went with one also even though I have a 2.0L s I figure 200cc is not that much of a buffer considering Porsche might not of planned for really hot places
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:36 PM
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Neven: hope its warm then as its freezing at the moment (ie early 60s or 15C).
ficke: checked the t-stat. It was ok. I hear what you say about the external cooler. Hopefully I will not have to do that after the shroud change. BTW, did you put a later shroud on your car before putting on the external cooler?
Also, I checked out a 2.0L 1969 S the other day and it was fitted (original) with a front cooler, so I guess it was earlier than the 2.2s (once 2L got the MFI, I think).
Although Sherwood stated that 2.7 was the magic number for an external cooler, didn't Mr Anderson use the number of 170hp+? Then this would catch the 2.0L S model with MFI (I think) and definately the 2.2.
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Old 03-06-2005, 04:18 AM
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210 is normal. not a problem.
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Old 03-06-2005, 10:04 AM
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Fred , 69S's had external cooler?s I guess my 200cc buffer is not as much as I thought. Yeah I read in Bruce's book that 170hp was the porsche determing factor. I did not put on a newer shoroud sounds like a good idea, thanks. My engine is apart right now getting piston oil squiters, by pass mod., and a Carrera oil pump plus a new intermedate gear that is the reason for this tear down.
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ficke
now getting piston oil squiters, by pass mod., and a Carrera oil pump plus a new intermedate gear that is the reason for this tear down.
I saw the piston squirter upgrade in the book but I thought it was recommended for going to 2.7 P&C? Your upgrade certainly sounds like you are being cautious. Did you do the engine tin mode too?
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Old 03-06-2005, 02:32 PM
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Fred

There are big debates on this one, The fact that it is mandatory for nikasil P&C ie 2.7 upgrades as they run a closer tolerance than Cast Iron or biral cylinders but it is a worthwhile upgrade for pre 2.4 engines as it significantly drops the piston (& cylinder) temp. Having said that I wouldn't pull your engine apart to do it

HTH
Neven
Old 03-06-2005, 02:56 PM
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I duno if it has been mentioned but I would get rid of mechanical tensioners ASAP - they do not compensate for different engine temps and thus wear out your chains very fast. That's why they do need very frequent adjustment. If you have a race engine that comes apart after a couple of races well that's a different story.

Ingo
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:19 PM
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At 140.000 mile oil started to look like well used trans oil only instead of bronze it was silver. The tin was cut before but that was not enough. I figured while it is apart I will do these upgrades. I really injoy these SWB 2.0L S's they really are a streaight shot of 911, not watered down, and am not looking for a diffrent feel so I just am updating it to the things Porsche found to help. The only "back dating" maybe a small hp gain I am doing is twin plugging the heads in an effort to take advantage of the early design. Frankly I hate having the lower valve covers cast for the plugs and not machined they look like they were left half done That is proably the dumbest reason to twin plug but there is some others, pass emmision, burn 91 octane, cool heads, I do not have the later carbs with the inrichner,etc. I also really agree with Ingo and went with later chain box's so I could run P-fed tensihiners. I know it will not "look right" but this is one of the first cars I am really building for me and the peace of mind is worth it I wish I was where you are, sorting out the car instead of waiting on a machine shop
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:07 PM
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