And it begins... the start of the 3.2SS
 

Late last week I got a surprise delivery at work. The pallet contained the remains of a 78 3.0. The engine dropped a valve seat from a possible broken fan belt. I will let you decide which hole got the most damage.

The engine top end was taken apart to determine damage. It arrived with the heads and valve train removed and included in the attached boxes.
First I took off the jugs, quickly followed by circlips, wristpins and pistons. Here is the result. Next step, buy an engine stand and split the case. I think I could probably do it without a stand. HMM might be worth a shot.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110336588.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110336594.jpg

L to R, 1-6. HMM what's up with #5?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110336602.jpg

It was just cracked and then broke free upon removal. Yeah, that did some damage.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110336633.jpg

Too bad the previous owner kept the matching head for a garage trophy. Build specs and more questions to follow...

Time for a good cleaning. Now where did I hide those dial bore gauges and mic set.

JP, was this an early Carrera 3.0L?

Is it the pistons, Chris?

Re: And it begins... the start of the 3.2SS
 

Looks OK to me! LOL. If you find an extra set of 78-79 heads, or even another complete 78-79 3.0, PM me. I need a 3.0 crank/rods and heads for my 3.2SS. Thanks

Chris, it is a 930/04 US 78/9 3.0. It does have Nikasil cylinders. #5 has light scoring from the damage. All the others look perfect. I need to wash them up and measure them out. They will likely be forsale soon. I wish it was a C3 I might change the build to a 2.8SS after reading Henry's recent description.

Scott, I might have a few extra heads. I just bought a set of six to complete the build and should have a few extra. It will be a few weeks before I have all the parts measured up. I will let you know.

Good luck Jamie!

This is going to be a heck of a motor when your finished.

Lucky you Jamie... I've got the same motor in the Black racecar... Major grunt and power. :D

Fun stuff Jamie! Keep us posted!

Chris, that's not a C3/3.0T case like your blackie engine...but if you'd rather have a big crank 3.2, I'll be happy to trade you the engine out of "Bastard" for Blackie's engine :D

What's up with the saw?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110398478.jpg

Souk lending you his rebuilding tools? ;)

So is this engine to replace the existing one in your car?

Looks like the head studs were okay (except one) before the valve seat hiccup? That's promising.

How do you think I pulled the first stud? Don't dismiss the saw!

The saw was used to shorten the pallet so it would fit in the wagon for the trip from work home.

Yes, it will eventually replace the current stock internal 78 3.0 in the ST.

The one headstud unscrewed itself when pulling the barrel nuts from the heads. This is another clue that it was overheated prior to the valve seat damage.

Funny thing, all the lower studs are steel. There was no evidence of a rebuild from the PO (documentation or otherwise). I thought all SC motors came with dilivar lower studs. Either way I will replace them for peace of mind.

The eventual build specs are going to be...

3.0 case crank
98mm RSR PC set. 10.3:1 which should measure about 9.8:1 on SC heads
Crane 296 cam (fit specs for budget, low mileage used with rockers) with nearly the same specs as a Mod-S grind in lift and duration
stock heads (39mm) ports
7100 redline
twin-plugged (waiting for Aaron to move into production)
First it will be weber 40s moving to my custom ITBs/EFI after break-in.

Should be fun. I have a long way to go and no time limit to get there. this project is purely a learning experience.

Souk I will trade you for a normal 3.2 capable case (mine) for a long stroke version anyday. 3.4 would be nice too! And just as easy as this one.

Yep..3.4 will be nice :) Can't trade you though...unless the buy the whole car after I "fix it right." How much would you pay for a RUF BTR clone? :D

Edit: Forgot Kevin...your package will arrive in the mail sawed in half! :) I used that saw before I shipped it to Jamie.

Are those pistons really 8.5:1 US 3.0 pistons? they look different somehow..

This is my first disassembly. What makes them look different than the other US variants?

I will clean them up and post new pics.

Thanks for the details Jamie. I was simply curious what kinda build you were planning. Sounds like a solid plan. Will be fun to watch your progress. Keep an eye on Souk. He may provide you with a twin plug solution as well?

Souk,

You know i'd still whoop you if that package did show up sawed in half! :p

I got your twin plugs right here Kevin...one fist for each side of your funky head! :D

Go home Punk! That's where i'm going............

Oh, and there better be a package waiting in the mailbox for me! ;)

Not going home for a few hours..TPS report is over due :(

Don't get your hopes up..snail mail takes a night to process.

We just refuse to let this joke die, don't we? :D

Good luck on your TPS reports.

And don't worry about the interview you've got tomorrow.

edit............ looks like Pelican doesn't like the url address. The word you need to fill in the "****" is obviously *****, but without the ! of course.

What is a 3.2SS? What does the SS stand for?

3.2SS is a short stroke 3.2. This is done by using 98mm pistons and a 70.4mm crank from an SC. A regualar SC piston is 95mm. Using the 98mm pistons on a 3.2 crank (74.4) will give you a 3.4.

Jamie,

In building your 3.2SS are you going to use MFI so that it is period correct with the ST

Michael

Put a blower on it Jamie...a big honking chrome blower sticking out the deck lid :D (just poking fun at Jamie and the "period correctness" comment directed at a GruppeB'er, Michael..smile :) )

Souk,

Didn't know i belonged to GruppeB or any other gruppe.

I know from reading jamie's previous posts on his ST build up that he went to great lengths to mak ethe car look Period correct (ie flare shapes) whilst I dont have a problem with a 3.6 in the back I am a big fan of MFI in view of the fun factor.

SmileWavy

I look forward to all the informative discussions we have

Michael

Micheal, I was refering to Jamie's GruppeB affiliation..but we'll take you as a member too :)

What you mean to say I can join even though i am down under

I accept as long as i don't have top attend meetings on a regular basis the commute could be a bit long with the car.

Michael



:D

I always thought Jp's car was b!tchin. I like the 3.2ss idea, thats what I am going to start building as soon as my car is painted and starting to go back together, oh and then I have to wait for dad to get his 3.6 so I can have his 3.0.

Good luck!

Porsche Kid,

I had a 3.2SS MFI and I wish I hadn't sold it. But hey I think the next motor will be bigger and better.

Looking forward to JPs build.

Michael

Jamie, you may wish to mention to people that may not know and get a little confused that even though the stock and larger bore is identical for the 3.0L SC and 3.2L Carrera, the 98mm pistons for the 3.0L 70.4mm crank use a 22mm pin while the 98's for the longer stroke 3.2L 74.4mm crank use a 23mm pin. Obviously, the 3.2L rods would also be needed to make an SC based motor into a 3.4L.

If one really wanted to be different, you can even machine the 98mm pistons (w/ 23mm pin) for use with the 3.6L 76.4mm crank (and 3.2L/3.3L rods) and make a long stroke 3.5L if one desires. Andial did a few 930 motors in this configuration yesteryear, but I haven't heard or seen a normally aspirated version in this configuration.

Anyway, back to your discussions and build...

Looks like fun BTW.:)

Ralph

The madness never ends does it Ralph :) Don't forget the 100 mm cylinders too with a bored out case....and if you get really crazy LN Engineering will make you 102 mm jugs for a 3.0/3.2 head stud pattern :eek:

BTW, your jugs are close to being hogged out! I'm using a hand drill and a 98mm hole saw on those puppies and them I'm baking the coating on to them in the kitchen... :D (no really...they will be handled by some of the best in the industry)

Back to the build....Jamie.... :)

Good points to eliminate confusion Ralph. Its still amazing how many different engine combinations are possible with a 911 case. Those engineers really did their homework.

Michael, I would love to do MFI. The throttle response is unmatched. I won't even begin to describe the sound and look in the engine bay. That being said I do have a philosophy about this engine.

I am custom building my own ITB setup. It will have a high butterfly and injector placement. I am also planning to have a 12 plug distributor that will be electronically triggered and controlled. This will give the best of both worlds. Vintage look with modern state-of-the-art performance. I will post with all the mods as the project progresses.

Now, back to my build... Oh wait, I am at work. I did mix the trashcan of TSP last night to start degreasing some of these parts. My donor motor was the dirtiest, grimiest, nastiest 911 motor I have ever come across. I scraped crud for 2 hours before I found the through bolts on top of the case last night. EEEWWW!

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the 100's, I am reminded every day when I turn the key.:) I just figured let's just leave it at 98's because that was where the discussion was at the time.

Put the damn thing together will you? You got those from me what, 4-5 months ago?:p What did you end up doing with the pistons? Paperweights for your desk?

Sorry to temporarily hijack Jamie, need some filler material until you post with the latest update. Think of it as a free bump.:)

You guys and your MFI, EFI and turbocharging. I really need to move from California.:(

Ralph

Jamie, you should really try and find a local shop with a good parts dishwasher. I was fortunate (and grateful) to have free reign at Andial, and let me tell you packing the thing with dirty/greasy parts and coming back 20-30 minutes later and the case, cam towers, heads, transaxle, etc 95% clean was a godsend. All you need to do then is the final cleaning which will save you a TON of time.

Ralph

Ralph, I agree about hte parts washer. This motor had 1/4" of muck covering most of it. No wonder this thing overheated. The tops and sides of the cylinder fins were nearly plugged. I bet no air went through these at all. The heads were much cleaner. Just a reminder to check your thermostat and breather cover gaskets.

I am just precleaning to find the necessary fasteners and to make sure I don't strip them trying to wrench through the muck.

I took out the cylinders last night. The are nearly clean. The muck just dropped off with a nylon scrub brush.

I hope to split the case this weekend. Time to find out how much damage occured on the bottom end.

Any body ever build a 98mm unit w/ 66mm crank? Would the early crank even mate to the later case?

It can be done. You could use an early 3.0 turbo case and a 66mm crank for a short stroke 2.8 (95mm pistons), 3.0 (98mm), or even a 3.1 (100mm).

HMM 3.0SS. This would be very cool!

Ultra oversquare motors get my F1 jones on. How enticing is that!

I am building a SS3.2 on a 79 SC motor with Andial S cams, 46 pmos, crank fire ignition and full SSI exhuast. I have collected all the parts over the last year. The problem is I now know of a euro 3.0 ltr motor for sale quite cheap and the thoughts of that exact engine have entered my mind.

66 crank with 98mm = a very rev happy SS 3.0ltr


Alan.UK

Alan, you would more than likely need custom pistons. Im almost positive there would be a compression drop if you used a 66mm crank & rods with those pistons. Check out Waynes original response in the engine config thread I linked earlier.

sorry for the hijack, Jamie

Hi Shuie,

I don't actually have the pistons for my motor yet so that would not be a problem. I am selling my 98mm MM set up due to having the S cams and buying custom J&E with new 98 cylinders direct from a company over here in the UK.

Thanks

Alan