291.5

Tinker

When is DYNO Day???

1tonturbo
>>>When is DYNO Day???<<<

Most likely next week.

I have to pull the engine/transmission Monday due to a problem with the transmission the cropped up yesterday. I should have it fixed and back in the car by the end of the week.

Plus, I wanted to have some mileage on the engine before I got it on the dyno.

Once that's done, I'll be on the way to the dyno.

TonyG

So you are putting a few miles on it prior to the dyno. Gotta ask... How does it feel. What is your guess on RWHP? Just for fun.

Bryan

Whats the airflow thru the heads, the specs for the cam, ie lobe centers, duration, compression ratio, valve sizes and we can get a reasonable estimate. Airflow thru the heads and compression ration are the most important variables. Carbs or injection, air flow thru the intake system.

Actually if you know the overall airflow the hp can be gustimated by dividing the af by 4 and multiplying it by the number of cylinders. Then take 25 percent for loss in the drive train and you have the actual hp, plus or minus about 5 percent. That of course is a maximum.

Think about it folks. IT ain't rocket science. We all know that the max power is with an af ratio of about 12:1. Therefore if we know the airflow. we know the exact power, if we keep the af mixture where it should be.

snowman

The engine is a stock 964 engine with stock heads that have had larger valves installed (the same sizes as the late 993 approx).

The cams are 964 cams with the 993 sport grind by Web Cam.

The carbs are 50mm PMO with 41mm chokes.

The headers are Partrick Motorsport 1.75" race headers going into a M&K 2 in 2 out muffler.

Electromotive crank fire ignition.

There's the spec.

Tender your guess.


TonyG

330

Sounds about like 282.

Official guess 242

TonyG,
What's your guess?

289hp

1tonturbo


>>>TonyG,
What's your guess?<<<

I know nothing more than you all know with the exception that I've driven the car. Yes that's a big advantage, but then again I'm not participating in the contest.

The idea here is to stir up the bench racing scene on the Pelican board.

Honestly, I really have no idea about the power to the ground as I'm used to running heavier cars. Thus this car I'm sure feels like it's putting out more power, to me, than it probably is.

Only the dyno will tell for sure...


TonyG

Lets see here, 240hp, REAL hp to the rear wheels will push my M635 to 180mph plus, Same size engine, but 4valve plus motronic,plus really really nice factory headers, plus 10.5:1 compression, plus water cooling, 270 something degree factory cams. Thats not shabby, thats MORE than a Mustang SVO v8 or most any GM V8, even the hopped up ones. Dosen't sound like much but it is, much more than a typical anything you will find on the street. Thats about 330 at the flywheel by the way.

>>>Lets see here, 240hp, REAL hp to the rear wheels will push my M635 to 180mph plus, Same size engine, but 4valve plus motronic,plus really really nice factory headers, plus 10.5:1 compression, plus water cooling, 270 something degree factory cams. Thats not shabby, thats MORE than a Mustang SVO v8 or most any GM V8, even the hopped up ones. Dosen't sound like much but it is, much more than a typical anything you will find on the street.<<<

240 REAL hp to the wheels is well... 240RWHP.

I don't know about where you live, but 240RWHP here on Southern California is not much. 350HP to the wheels will barely raise an eyebrow.

We've got 996TT's , 993TT's, 944 Turbos, 930's, Z06's, Vipers, and more.... that in the normal course of business put out MUCH MUCH more than 240 REAL rear wheel hp, all day long.

We're getting ready to put in an all aluminum 550HP N/A (to the crank) LS1 V8 into a 944 turbo. Wanna go for a ride? :-)



TonyG

Point is most of the 290 plus postings are very wishful thinking. I am getting 145rwhp out of a 1725 cc Porsche engine, but you can't really drive it on the street, or without 110 octane race gas. Lets see that makes 290 highly unlikely for any street car on pump gas.

snowman

>>>Point is most of the 290 plus postings are very wishful thinking. I am getting 145rwhp out of a 1725 cc Porsche engine, but you can't really drive it on the street, or without 110 octane race gas. Lets see that makes 290 highly unlikely for any street car on pump gas.<<<

I made no posting.

The DynoJet will tell the story good or bad.

People are free to tender their guess. Close, or far off in the clouds as it may be.

We'll see real soon what a healthy 3.6L engine will make on the rollers... on 91 octane pump gas.

I can tell you this.. the car feels REAL fast. I am very surprised at how well it runs.

So tender your guess....


TonyG

Well mine only dynos at 240 but it has passed EVERY Porsche on a race track that didn't have flame throwing supposid 600hp plus turbos that definately didn't run on pump gas. Thats like at Michigan International, and speeds over 140mph, more like in the 160mph range.

Yeah, but you are forgeting that most DynoJet's are fudged to make customers happy and that whole "SAE"-corrected mumbo-jumbo also skews the numbers.

My bet has nothing to do with actual crank output but with number owner is likely to get on a piece of paper he's going to display to us. ;)

Frankly, all SAE-corrected thing is quite meaningless. Only thing that matters is wheel torque. Estimations of what engine might deliver if gearbox losses where only x%, air humidity was 70%, temperature was 21 deg. C and full moon was shining + fudge factor to make customers happier has little to do with what you get when you nail it on a freeway.

I use accellerometers when tuning engine. Accelleration vs. engine speed is directly proportional to torque. More torque means more power. I just do run after run, comparing torque figures. When curves are maximized the engine is well-tuned. Then you can take it to a dyno and print out happy pappers... ;)

beepbeep (and others)

Actually, the SAE correction factor is an excellent way to normalize results from place to place for comparision purposes (which is exactly what it was designed to do).

Even on an engine dyno, how could you compare the power output of an engine dynoed in Los Angeles California with a similar engine dynoed in Denver Colorado?

You couldn't. The differences in barometric conditions would never allow an accurate comparision..... unless you use a correction factor.

An excellent example would be my previous 944 turbo. Here in Los Angeles California on a DynoJet the car put down 400RWHP at 17psi boost, and 415RWHP at 18psi boost. I sold the car to a person in Toronto Canada. He then ran the car on a DynoJet there, and the difference was only 1 RWHP using the SAE correction factor.


The whole issue here is the ability to "compare".


TonyG

264.959 (RWHP)

271.4

262.5 rwhp

301HP at the crank

philippeF

Read the contest rules.

The contest is for SAE corrected WHEEL HP on a DynoJet.

TonyG

*** ANNOUNCEMENT ***

The actual dyno test for the contest will not take place until next week.

The new engine proceeded to break the 915 tranny. Thus I'm in the process of obtaining another 915 transmission for installation. I have a few prospects and I'll be making my decision today/tomorrow.

PS> If anybody here in Los Angeles has a good 915 for "cheap" let me know. I plan on building up a full-tilt high-end 915 for the future and need a replacement trans to "hold me over" for a few months.


TonyG

Hmmm, broken 915, more than 181 lb/ft ? At what rpm will the engine have its peak power :)

Darn, to bad theres no way to figure it out.

Probably just a defective tranny anyway. Now if it broke an AXIL?

snowman

>>>Probably just a defective tranny anyway. Now if it broke an AXIL?<<<

Uh.... the drivers side axle started making a pronounced click when it was loaded/unloaded (probably CV goint going).

TonyG

Let me see
considering you normally get around from a 3.6 (engine output)
British horspower.

295bhp from a remapped stock 964,
315bhp from a stock 3.6 993 engine with remap and friendly exhaust

325bhp from a stock 964 RS engine with MoTeC
350+ from a 3.6 964 engine with a dibble of porting and good cams/retainers.(on stock intake/exhaust)

Id expect for the money you have spent you want to be getting close to 350bhp for it to make sense.
I have seen 310 from a stock 964 in fresh condition with a dibble of porting and a damned good remap on Motronic.

With the bigger valves, throttle bodies and the exhaust doing there bit my guess is that it will be lower.

Id guess at 315 but as long as it looks good, sounds good and brings a smile to your face, what does it matter. $$$

no idea what that is in US power.
good luck my man

287.5

298


Just playing the odds. Kind of like "The Price is Right".

292.6 rwhp

Kirk

277.55 RWHP

Are the dyno coming up?

ok : 288.6rwhp:D

Ok Tony. The suspense is killing me. Dyno numbers yet?

Boxer 6

I had to put off the dyno runs because the tranny decided die.

I had the engine/trans removed, and I took the trans apart and installed $800 worth of new parts (wholesale shop price).

The trans is together, pending the tightening of the two nuts that hold the gear stacks together. Then I just have to slip on and tighten the cover for 5th/reverse. The hard part is over.

What made the situation worse is that I had to serve on Jury Duty smack dab in the middle of this deal, just before the holidays!

The shop won't be able to reinstall the trans until this coming Monday due to the Holidays. Which means that I should be able to do the dyno tuning/testing towards the end of next week.

So... there it is.

TonyG

295.7 rwhp

Sorry to hear this! When bad things happen they alway seem to happen all at once. Happy Holidays and a better new year.

2,345 RWHP

Just kiddin'. But wouldn't that be wicked......

Let's see I'll go for 286.25 RWHP

Wellborn