oil pump - sonicate?

bbh03 · 12-19-2005, 06:04 PM

I was considering ultrasonically cleaning my oil pump at work ( the bath is just big enough for that. Is this recommended and in what solvent? Mineral spirits? Acetone? Something else? What else could benefit from a similar cleaning. I'm afraid the bath is too small for my oil cooler.

Thanks,

Brian

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

The oil pumps I've seen have always been pretty clean to start out with.
-Chris

bbh03 · 12-19-2005, 08:01 PM

The outside is pretty filthy (an exageration) in that if I wipe my finger across, I get dirt, regardless of how much I scrub. I figure I can do this easily so if it will help and wont hurt, why not? I should mention, this rebuild is not the result of engine failure and the insides are remarkably clean to begin with.

helidoc · 12-19-2005, 08:26 PM

If I remember right you shouldn't use volitile chemicals in an ultrasonic cleaner. A dilute solution of something like carbon-x or other degreaser should be ok as long as it doesn't attack aluminum or magnesium (ie. simple green). Make sure you dry it off completely after cleaning so there is no water left to corrode or rust components, ie oven heat and then coat it in oil.

bbh03 · 12-19-2005, 08:42 PM

Yeah, it's a fire hazard, but I use water in the bath and then place a flask of the solvent in the water bath. I have access to simple green, but I wonder if solvent would work better? Good idea to dry it with heat and oil it. Thanks.

helidoc · 12-19-2005, 08:50 PM

DON'T use simple green! It will corrode badly. I used it on an aluminum Ferrari bell housing once and really regretted it.

bbh03 · 12-20-2005, 05:29 AM

Oh! - right. I misread your post.

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

I just disassembled mine completely and used brake clean... looks great now. Then I lubed it, sprayed a ziplock with some wd40 and stored it away. I have not installed it yet, but it turned very smootly

-m

bbh03 · 12-20-2005, 04:07 PM

Hmmm - I just discovered that this oil pump is the old magnesium one from 1968-1976 (according to wayne's book). WHy would that have been in my 1978 motor? Maybe someone has rebuilt this bottom end before?

Maybe I'll disassemble it. What are the torque specs for the 4 bolts when reassembling?

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

There was no torque spec in my little book for 82 SCs so I just made them 'tight'. I suggest you knock the pins out of the middle plate before loosening the nuts. Makes it easier to disassemble.

Also, make sure and MARK which gears match which as the same ones have been rubbing each other for a while and you want to match them up exactly the way they were before removing.

I have some pics I can upload later if you like.

Enjoy!

-Michael

bbh03 · 12-21-2005, 08:55 AM

I would appreciate that, thanks.

Brian

bbh03 · 12-21-2005, 09:19 AM

Can anyone comment on the pump type? The fact that is has 3 raised lines makes me think itis the magnesium pump as per the info in Wayne's book, however it is from a 1978 Euro case? Here is a picture from before I cleaned it (wrong side of the pump, sorry).

helidoc · 12-21-2005, 10:11 AM

From the color of the metal I think it is magnesium. Aluminum is more shiney silver. I have been told Porsche uses magnesium because it is easier to make castings of and machine (and therefore cheaper, not because its lighter).

bbh03 · 12-21-2005, 07:53 PM

I'm trying to figure out how this pump got into this engine and why. I can tell it has had a top end before, but the case appeared to be virgin inside until now. The only exception was more squeezed-in case sealant than I expected to see from the factory.

Is it possible that this pump was put in byt the factory for a Euro 1978 911SC?

bbh03 · 12-21-2005, 07:54 PM

Helidoc: What is simple green chemically?

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

Here is my '82 3.0 Euro SC pump disassembled. It is a very simple device and easy to clean.

Note the pins in what I would call an intermediate plate. I would remove those before removing the screws.

Your housng is a lot darker than mine so your assumption about the magnesium is surely correct. You can see the 4 verticle bars on my housing identifying it. Perhaps they ran out of the stock pump that day so they used an earlier one?

Also, I used a scribe to lightly mark the impellers matching tooth and valley such that they could be reassembled in the exact order they were in.

Then I sprayed it all with WD to prevent rusting and put it in a bag. I thought about scotch brighting the impellers, but they were very smooth and clean so I skipped it. After cleaning and oiling everything rotated very easily.

Normally, one might not take it appart, but I had a total ring failure that produced a lot of small bits as well as having a ton of small bits of RTV Silicon all over the inner case. So everything is getting a thurough cleaning.

Enjoy your hollidays!

-Michael

helidoc · 12-23-2005, 12:00 PM

I don't know what simple green has in it but it is caustic on aluminum and magnesium. I have heard that they have a new product formulation that may not be as bad on these metals but my experience tells me to use other chemicals. May be someone else knows that is a chemist or chemical engineer out there on the forum. I not only had damage (cosmetic) to a bell housing but also ruined an aluminum spray gun that I used to put it on with.

bbh03 · 12-23-2005, 12:04 PM

I am a ChE, but I have no idea what's int he stuff!

304065 · 12-29-2005, 06:05 AM

Helidoc, how long did you leave the simple green in contact with the bell housing? I am not disputing your outcome but I am curious as to whether it fogged instantly, or was on for a while.

From their web site:

Aircraft Cleaning with Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green
Many private and commercial aircraft owners and operators have cleaned their craft with All-Purpose Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green® for many years. However, these products do not have Mil-Prf (military testing) authority. The testing involves very long (168 hours in one test) soaking of various metals in the solution and then a corrosion inspection. If an aircraft owner only wants to use mil-prf approved products; he will not want to use Simple Green. Please see the additional information under "Aluminum

Aluminum - Is it safe to use Simple Green on aluminum?
Simple Green products have been successfully and safely used on aircraft, automotive, industrial and consumer aluminum items for over 20 years. However, caution and common sense must be used: Aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times of All-Purpose Simple Green and Crystal Simple Green with unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and crevices to remove all Simple Green/Crystal Simple Green residues. Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple Green products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to prevent oxidation.

helidoc · 12-29-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john_cramer
Helidoc, how long did you leave the simple green in contact with the bell housing? I am not disputing your outcome but I am curious as to whether it fogged instantly, or was on for a while.

From their web site:

Aircraft Cleaning with Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green
Many private and commercial aircraft owners and operators have cleaned their craft with All-Purpose Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green® for many years. However, these products do not have Mil-Prf (military testing) authority. The testing involves very long (168 hours in one test) soaking of various metals in the solution and then a corrosion inspection. If an aircraft owner only wants to use mil-prf approved products; he will not want to use Simple Green. Please see the additional information under "Aluminum

Aluminum - Is it safe to use Simple Green on aluminum?
Simple Green products have been successfully and safely used on aircraft, automotive, industrial and consumer aluminum items for over 20 years. However, caution and common sense must be used: Aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times of All-Purpose Simple Green and Crystal Simple Green with unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and crevices to remove all Simple Green/Crystal Simple Green residues. Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple Green products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to prevent oxidation.

I'm not sure since it was about 8 or 9 years ago but it was probably about 5 to 10 minutes, enough to spray it on and scrubb it then rinse. My guess is that it was a combination of the Simple Green and letting it air dry. I was changing a clutch and when I went to put the bell housing back on I noticed that it was covered in patchy areas with white powder which unfortunately left permanent ugly marks. Also the applicator had the same thing. It was one of those aluminum spray devices that you hook up to your air compressor and has a 1 quart aluminum can (like a paint sprayer) that you put your chemical into. It has never worked the same again. Just one man's experience but it is not isolated. The mechanic that works on my helicopter also has warned me not to use Simple Green to clean anything on it as well due to corrosion problems. Maybe if the metal has some type of sealant on it there may not be an issue but I am not willing to take a chance. I have used Simple Green in other situations though since it is a good cleaner/degreaser, just not around Al or Mg.