Rebuild off to a disasterous start

andrew15 · 05-22-2006, 03:59 PM

Well, I got all the items together for the shortblock assembly, cleaned stuff and cleaned some more. Got the short block assembled and the crank won't turn. at all. zero.
Panic sets in and then anger

My first concern is that the crank is binding, so I tear down the block, clean all the sealant off (not too fun) and dry assemble with the crank and rods only - no intermediate shaft and oil pump. I torque it down and it turns no problem!?

I dry assemble with the crank, intermediate shaft and oil pump, and - it doesn't turn again!?!

This is now driving me nuts, I dissassemble and check the intermediate shaft. I notice that when I turn rotate the intermediate shaft, the oil pump coupler rotates askew - it looks like the splined tip on my intermediate shaft is bent slightly and is causing the oil pump to bind as well.

Odd as I don't remember this during my initial checks, but no problem, I have a spare intermediate shaft on the shelf- I check it and it seems ok, dry assemble only the intermediate shaft and oil pump in case - it binds!!

I'm officially insane with anger now. It look like the oil pump input shaft was a bit bent all along and has now bent my 2 intermediate shaft ends. Off to the machine shop tomorrow to get the shafts straightened and looking for a new oil pump.

I'm starting to feel like a mentally slow monkey! Hopefully I can get the stuff by the weekend to try again.

Frustrated,
Andrew M

andrew15 · 07:46 PM

A few other revalations I had today:

#1) A .25 under # 8 bearing, no matter how nice it may look, won't fit on a std crankshaft ( I was using this #8 bearing I had on the shelf because it had the later oil relief channel - too bad I didn't measure the inside diameter)

#2) Once a pully seal is installed in an undersize #8 bearing that won't fit on a std crankshaft, it's very difficult to remove without killing it badly.

#3) That special nut that fits on the stud inside the chain area when sealing the block? The one that Wayne, in his book, says don't loose? Well, I thought I lost it and took one from a 3.0 block I had. But....It doesn't matter if you steal one from your 3.0 block, because it's not a 10x1mm stud on the early block

It's a 10x1.5 which is handy becuase I already have a stud removal tool for that size and can now replace my stripped stud.

#4) Well, I'm sure there is a 4, but for now I'm hoping I made all the mistakes I'm going to. Today made me feel like a rank rookie and it's frustrating when you know your not that bad.

AM

Jeff Alton · 05-22-2006, 04:57 PM

Sorry to hear about the "issues" it will come together in the end! How did the stretch gauge work out for you?

Cheers

andrew15 · 05-22-2006, 05:01 PM

Hey Jeff - I was just about to PM you for your address to send it back. The crank assembly was the only thing that went together easily this weekend and the stretch gauge worked like a charm! As a side note, I noticed that the proper stretch seemed to be way more than the recommended torque value would have produced.

PM me your address and it will be on it's way tomorrow.

Regards,
Andrew M

Jeff Alton · 05-22-2006, 06:15 PM

All of us have found that it takes more torque to stretch the bolts then the specified torque. But the spec torque is after you have torqued each one down 3 times (I think it was 3). At any rate the bolt does not return to original length each time so it makes some sense. The bolt retains some of its stretch after it has been loosened.

Glad it worked out for you!!

Cheers

kenikh · 05-22-2006, 07:30 PM

Damn, Andrew! Keep us posted.

andrew15 · 05-23-2006, 08:52 PM

Well I found an SC oil pump close by and am having a machine shop try to straighten the intermediate shaft(s) - should know by this weekend if all is well.

Regards,
Andrew M

kirkf · 05-25-2006, 07:05 AM

Sorry to hear about your early poor start. No doubt it will get better from here.

I am still waiting for my 3.6 parts to return from the machine shop, but I hope to start my reassembly next week.

I have never used bolt stretch before, what is the stretch on the rod bolts supposed to be?
Where did you get your gauge from catca?

Kirk

Jeff Alton · 05-25-2006, 11:27 AM

My gauge is from ARP, you are welcome to use it. I am picking it back up today from Greyhound (thanks andrew). Contact me offline if you have a use for it! The different sized bolts all have there own stretch spec, the spec is supplied with the bolts.

Cheers

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

It sounds like you're checking everything carefully, which is the most important thing. Go slowly, and read through the book every so often...

-Wayne

andrew15 · 05-26-2006, 04:48 AM

Thanks Wayne - I've been reviewing the book and factory manual incessantly while waiting for the new pump to arrive. One thing is for sure - putting the case together a couple times dry will definately make you more comfortable and less stressed when it's for real with sealant!
AM

Tyson Schmidt · 05-26-2006, 09:16 AM

How's the backlash between the intermediate gear and the crank drive gear?

Do you have any backlash?

Maybe you have a "1" gear with a "0" case? Could cause pre-load between the two. Just something else to check.

andrew15 · 05-26-2006, 09:31 AM

Hi Tyson - I was thinking this myself. I'm using all the original parts to this engine: '1' gear in a '1' case with the original crank gear, so it should work, but I'll make sure to double check the backlash when I get the intermediate shaft back from the machine shop.
Regards,
Andrew M

Tyson Schmidt · 05-26-2006, 01:38 PM

Well, that eliminates that as a likely source of the problem.

What about bearing clearance on the intermediate shaft?

Have you tried bolting the case halves together with just the int. shaft to see if it spins freely?

andrew15 · 05-26-2006, 02:23 PM

Yup - bolted the case together with the crank and intermediate shaft and no issues - spins freely.

AM

chancecasey · 05-31-2006, 11:22 AM

Hang in there!!! It could be a lot worse - you could have assembled your case 3 times WITH sealant. That is no fun.

andrew15 · 06-11-2006, 07:09 PM

Well, after a week of holidays, I'm back on track! Upon further inspection, it seems that the local machine shop that was commissioned to remove some of the bearing web to make clearance for the turbo oil pump, didn't remove enough material. The web put a bit of pressure on the pump and prevented the assembly from turning.

Well, after dissassembly and inspection of the turbo oil pump, it seems no permament damage was done to the pump and it spins freely. The intermediate shaft has been straightened and I was able to do a dry assembly today that went off without a hitch.

I still can't believe that this happened, but it should go together tomorrow OK.

Regards,
Andrew M

Purkinjefibre · 06-12-2006, 06:48 AM

Hi Andrew-hopefully everything will fall into place now