964 3.6 rebuild
 

This weekend I finally made some headyway on my rebuild so I thought I would post some pics, etc.

I originally dropped the engine because the clutch was giving me problems and there was too many oil leaks to count.

-In this rebuild I am going to remove the RS lightweight flywheel and go to a dual mass flywheel.
-I am replacing my 1989 pistons & cylinders with late model 1994 pistons & cylinders that have the provision for the sealing ring
- New phosporous-bronze valve guides and new Intake & exhaust valves to correct the damage from a previously done top end rebuild.
-New valve springs
-Machine my 1989 heads to accept the sealing rings
-ARP rod bolts
-Regrind cams (lobes had pitting)
-Rebush rocker arms
-Rebush rods

(and some other stuff, but its late...)

Here are some pics of the engine when it came out:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301222.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301240.jpg

The first thing I did was to mount the crankshaft on the flywheel and clean it to remove any residue from the micropolishing of the journals. (Used brake clean with compressed air to blow out all the oil passages)

Then I cleaned the rods as well, to remove any machining / shipping debris.

Next I measured the crankshaft main and rod bearing journals to ensure they were on spec. (All of them came up within limits for standard bearings)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301361.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301381.jpg

I checked the bearing clearances on all the rods using plastigage.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301585.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301608.jpg

Then I recleaned the rods, crank and bearings with alchohol to do the real installation.
The rod bolt threads got arp lubricant and liqui moly was used for rebuild grease on the bearings.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301743.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301772.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151301845.jpg

Next I did the final prep of the two case halves and setup all the required tools and parts as per Waynes book:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302023.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302050.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302099.jpg

The intermediate shaft bearing shells were placed in the case and the #8 nose bearing seal and O-ring were installed. I used a little threebond 1211 here to ensure it would seal well.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302292.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302326.jpg

Nice Kirk, I hope to be building up one of these soon.

I setup the crankshaft ready for install, with the RMS in place. However I wish i had left the RMS off, It ended up squeezing out of the case halves before I could get the case torqued up, and my engine holder doesn't permit alot of room to put it back in. I will have to take the engine off the stand to reinstall it later.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302624.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302684.jpg

I used pieces of sheet metal bent as per the book to hold the pistions & timing chain straight up for the case assembly.
For the case perimeter I used threebond 1104 and for the webs I used locktite 574.
I wish I had more pics of this step, but the threebond tacks up pretty fast and I didn't have time to grab the camera.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302805.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151302854.jpg

There is very few pictures of the case assembly stage, as all available hands were guiding the case halves together, and then securing the perimeter nuts.

I used the cap from a sharpie as a tool to push the case throughbolt O-rings over the threads. It worked great. (Thanx axl911) I applied plenty of dow corning 111 to the through bolt o-rings.

One mistake I made was I should have had these throughbolts ready to go with the O-rings already gooped up on them.

When the case leaks like a sieve I will get it right on the reseal...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151303074.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151303094.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151303119.jpg

And finally the case halves assembled:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151303168.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151303232.jpg

Sadly I work out of town during the week, so now I get to spend the next five days thinking about all the things that could have gone wrong before I can continue on with the assembly.

We really have to get Wayne to update his book with all the relevant differences for the 3.6l engines. There is so many being rebuilt now that they are 17 years old.

Anyways, everyone feel free to comment on any horrifc errors you see from the pics. :)

Kirk

A couple of questions:
1. Why doesn't deck height seem to matter on a 3.6? On the previous 911 engines they had spacers etc, but I see no mention of this for the 3.6 motors?
2. Why does the factory repair manual say that you should buy new microencapsulated bolts for the knock sensors? Whats wrong with the old bolts and some locktite?

Thanx
Kirk

Yeah baby.... Another 3.6 rebuild. I also plan to tear into my 3.6 before I put it into my 72 and these treads help ALOT.Thanks for posting.

A few questions
1-What special tools did you have to go out and buy or can you get most of the tools at a local auto parts store?

2- was the 3.6 much harder than a older air cooled motor?

3- I have the hydraulic valves.... Do you think thay are much harder to work with?

4- Dont you have to get the case faces shaved? Or is that not a concers with the 3.6?


Now to try to answer your questions.... For the knock sensor bolts, I think the old ones should be just fine . As for the deck height... Maybe the stronger 3.6 case does not have any problems with sag, maybe .

I added a .019" shim to both sides as all my heads had been machined to match. Jerry Woods made the two shims for me. Deck height is important.

Herman,
The only "special" tools that I needed for my 90 C2 rebuild were:

Cam Holder Tool
Engine Stand (adapter)
Head Nut/Flywheel Bolt Socket (triple square)
Z Block to hold Dial Indicator for Timing
Crank Pulley Removal Tool (bolt shaped tool)
1/4 drive Short Allen Socket for Rocker Arm Bolts (or shorten a regular length)

I can't think of any other special tools. You need 2 14mm 12 point sockets to remove the through bolts...... I didn't have 2 in 12 point. I do now though. (Oil line wrenches are needed, but they should be available locally)

-Eric
90 C2

Great writeup! Hope to be there soon with my own reassembly.

Hi Kirk,

I noticed you're putting back on a DMFW. Is there something you don't like about the LW flywheel?

Keep up the great pics and descriptions.

(P.S. My parents are from Winnepeg originally. Nice winters out there. :) )

Great pics and tech info!! Looks very professional, keep it coming!!

One of the reasons I dropped the engine was because of clutch problems. (Mostly due to oil leaking on the flywheel it would seem)

I decided to go back to the dual mass flywheel because I found the stalling issues with the LWF to be irritating. Particularly with the A/C on. I bought my car with the LWF so i'll have to see if like having the heavier dmf or not. If I decide I don't like it I will put the RS setup back in.

As for the pictures, I couldn't think of a better way to have one of the experts on here catch my mistakes. :) Cheap insurance against an oopsie!

Kirk

the motors are pretty straight forward in rebuilding. i've rebuilt quite a handful of 3.6's and a few 3.3 turbo's including my '91 965.

not a whole lot of really special tools. no need for the special cam crowsfoot and socket for the cams. few misc 12 point sockets. the spin on cylinder holders that keep the cylinders from falling off while tuning the motor over are handy, but can be made from brass/aluminum tubing and an old head nut if you're in a pinch. the sheet metal timing chain and rod holders are a great help if you don't have an extra set of hands around.

definitely get the z block dial indicator adaptor. saves a migrane in adjusting the cams

one tool that some beginners will find a great help are standard large size rubber bands. i've heard of people flipping the assembled case over in the engine stand hand having the expose loose rods bang around in the spigots, causing dents and whatnot in the spigot holes that can cause future problems down the road or even prevent the cylinders from fitting correctly. just pass clean rubber bands through the small rod ends and loop them over the headstuds in an "X" pattern to support the rod until you can get the piston/cylinder assemblies on. very cheap insurance......

I think light weight flywheels are a waste on a street car. They cause more issues than you think they help. You need torque and smoothness on the street.

Back in the muscle car days, you would actually install a heavier flywheel in small dispacement engines to keep the rpm's up between shifts. They made the cars faster believe it or not.

I received the first batch of parts back from the powder coater today. I had the engine tin done in gloss black, and the exhaust in high heat grey. (except for the new cup pipe and the back piece of the heat exchanger which I left silver)

The next batch of parts which will be red got sent in, and a pile of small parts that will get zinc dichromite(ate?)

Here are a couple pics.

Kirk
(I liked how the exhuast came out. I know it won't last long, but humour me. :) )http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151730296.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151730312.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151730327.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151730351.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151730374.jpg

Impressive and after reading Waynes book 100 times your pics seem fine.

Inspiration to us that work out of town. :)

Regards,

I will have to agree 100% with Asphalt, recently, I'm taking off more light weight flywheels, than installing them!, for exactly the same issues mentioned, whenever possible try to use the 993TT type, much stronger unit than the N/A types, (same unit as the 996TT, 996GT2's, & 996Gt3's), if you notice it, they are used on the GT3's, and that is a quick reving engine, cheers, Ant.

I got a couple of things done today.
I strung some elastics through the rods and rotated the engine a couple times to see how it felt.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151818442.jpg

The elastics worked better than I thought they would at keeping the rods straight, so they wouldn't catch on the engine casing.

I was going to check deck height today, but I couldn't find anything that I could use to squish between the piston/head, and since its Canada Day everything was closed.

So instead I took the engine off the engine stand and put the RMS in. I tried a second time to put in the one that came with my wrightwood racing gasket set , but it kept squeezing out, and eventually it got a rip in it, so instead I put a factory porsche one in. I was much happier with the fit of the black porsche seal. It was tight, and it went in and stayed in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151818506.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151818523.jpg

Then I put the dual mass flywheel on, and cross torqued the bolts to 63 ft lbs with locktite. (No laughing at my flywheel lock. )
I was confused at first with the flywheel because I had a washer and spring washer, that I couldn't fit on the flywheel no matter what I tried, after about an hour I noticed a reference in PET that mentioned they were only used on the earlier DMFs and not the LUKs. (Thanks to kevin for verifying that for me).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151818660.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151818697.jpg

Incidentally it was weird feeling the DMF rotate and spring back as I torqued the bolts. I have only ever put on solid flywheels before.

Kirk