Piston Squirters

The Turk · 08-23-2006, 11:41 AM

I just got my 1988 3.2 cases back from a reputable Porsche machine shop, I had a lot of work done including installing turbo piston squirters.

The first thing I noticed was that they had not been peened in like the originals, when I asked about it I was told that he
had been installing these using only red locktight for many years and had never had a problem.

What do you guys think ?

Is this going to be okay or should I go back and insist that he peen them ?

All advice welcome.

Thanks.

tadd · 08-25-2006, 04:17 AM

I'm not a huge fan of staking, but what else is there to be done.

Red locite is a fine adhesive but a mechanical interference 'fit' has none of the limitations, e.g. degredation with time and temperature.

Unlike my other pet engineering peve of tabbed washers (that frosts my cookies), staking has merit.

I'd have it done and make sure it is done correctly. If it pops out, you are going back in there

.

Just my 2 cents,

tadd

garibaldi · 08-25-2006, 04:24 PM

I think your nuts if you only put them in with red loctite, not only can excess loctite potentially make its way in to the squirter before it cures, but Id rather rely on a mechanical rather than chemical means to hold a squirter in that has that kind of hydraulic pressure pushing against it. If anything, loctite makes a sleeve retainer for an application such as that, but still I would stake them in. Crazy glue may be better than the loctite (Kidding). Look if the squirter comes out, your screwed....stake them. Besides red loctite is for fasteners, and a squirter is not a fastener

snowman · 05:21 PM

At this point you are stuck with what you have. Do not have them peened as you may cause the red locktite to fail. Also the red locktite may interfer with the peening once it has set. The shop stands by its method, so have them put it in writing, ie if a squirter falls out they will foot the bill. I wouldn't worry to much either as red locktite is very good and there is no reason it should fail inside an engine. I suspect they will have no trouble signing up to this.

Doing it over I would vote for peening plus red locktite.

Mr Beau · 08-26-2006, 07:25 AM

As mentioned already Red Loctite is for fasteners. Loctite makes some bearing sleave goop that seems better suited for this application (assuming you want an adhesive solution...)

sww914 · 08-27-2006, 04:46 AM

If the case is aluminum and the squirters are steel, the 2 metals will expand and contract at different rates. I think that the red loctite will fail eventually as a result of this. When steel valve seats are installed into aluminum heads, the heads are heated to expand them, so that when they're hot the seats won't fall out,but I doubt that this was done for the squirters. I would stake them.

The Turk · 08-27-2006, 10:23 AM

Thanks for all the responses, I appreciate it.

sww914,
Both the case and the squirter are aluminum.

I went back and talked with the machinist again, he insists that he has never had a failure doing this way and has done a lot of them over the last 30+ years.

Many of you have used this machine shop and I couldn't find anything bad being said about his work or ethic in any of the posts that mention his name.

Here's a picture of the one of the squirters, I was thinking of lightly peening (bending over the edge of the case where the arrows are) similar to what the factory does.

I'm talking just a slight peen being VERY careful not to damage or move the squirter, this would offer some mechanical resistance and piece of mind.

What do you think

?

sww914 · 08-27-2006, 10:34 AM

I would take a sharp punch and bend a little bit of metal over the lip into the squirter's escape path, it's not likely to hurt anything if you're careful, and a squirter falling out sounds like it could be really expensive. Who is the machine shop?
Good luck.

The Turk · 08-27-2006, 10:48 AM

ssw914,
That's exactly what I was thinking except I didn't think a sharp edge would be good, I don't want to cut but rather bend the
lip a little.

I thought maybe a 1/2 " chisel with the sharp edge ground off so it's kinda like a big screw driver, since the squirter hole is only about 3/16" in diameter I wouldn't be able to accidentally hit the squirter.

sww914 · 08-27-2006, 11:04 AM

I was thinking a centerpunch, a little sharp but round, to push a soft round bit of metal over the hole. I would set the punch about 3/23" away from the hole and give it a tap with a hammer. You coud practice on an inconspicous place on the case to see how it goes first, and then go for the money shot.

The Turk · 08-27-2006, 12:28 PM

I watched the machinist practice on a junk case and even he slipped and the center punch went right into the squirter, with 6 squirters there's lots of room for error.

I'll have to give this some more thought before I proceed any further

sww914 · 08-27-2006, 12:41 PM

OOPS!!!

Tom F2 · 08-27-2006, 06:44 PM

Use a dulled cold chisel for the peening. It'll look just like the originals.

snowman · 08-27-2006, 07:34 PM

Just remember, if you punch the squirters, you own them, not the shop. Stick with the shop.

adomakin · adomakin's Garage

I glued and punched mine with a centre punch. took my time and didn't have any scary moments. i went wide and hard enough so as to just deform the ally enough so that it would be hard for the squirted to just fall out if the loctite fails