90 C2 - 964 rebuild - Page 8

JWPATE · 02-02-2007, 01:17 PM

John,
I cannot thank you enough for that reference. I spent several
hours unsuccessfully attempting to locate just such a source.
Whatever the outcome I am more than just grateful for your
assistance.
This is just the reason that I find a group of enthusiasts such
as ours to be truly invaluable. I will be in contact with them first
thing on Monday.

Very best regards,
James

JWPATE · 02-05-2007, 02:17 PM

Having hooked up all the drive flanges, elect. plugs, oil and fuel
lines and etc. it is time to fill the fluids.
Tiptronic guys may be interested in this transmission fill method.
Use a new, and dedicated garden spray bottle. Cut the outlet
hose a few inches from the bottle, and push clear plastic hose
over the stub. Fit the Porsche fill fitting at the other end and
start pumping.
Positioned under the car only for the photo, in actual use I sat
outside the R/R wheel-well and could easily see the fill stand-
pipe. Just worked great - when at the level you choose loosen
the cap to dump the pressure.

Anthony,
I did get around to starting it up today. Started right up and
sounds nice. There were no fuel leaks. It was off and on several
times as I was filling the tiptronic and the power steering
reservoir- probably about 10 minutes total idle time.
Though the SAE fuel lines seem to be doing just fine, I remain
concerned, given your experience. For that reason, I did follow
up today on the search for German high pressure fuel hose.
First, the Cohline 370 hose which was original to the 964 is
apparently no longer being produced. I talked with Neil Mangia
today (NEWCO PRODUCTS), but it doesn’t look promising. He
does not have what we need in stock, and getting it will require a
20 Meter order. BUT, I have located another source for German
hose. Bel-Metric has high pressure fuel injection hose by
CONTINENTAL. So I have the Conti hose on order in 8 mm and
9.5 mm. I should have it in hand in about a week. Even then I
had to order 5 meters, so there will be plenty also for your
needs, provided it looks like the “right stuff”. I will advise

I did not escape without oil leaks! There is a small leak at the
1-2-3 chain cover and another small leak (pressure) at the 4-5-6
chain tensioner cover.
Also, when I went into the parts bin for an air filter I found that
I had neglected to order any. So I have something to do while I
wait.

stevepaa · 02-06-2007, 11:01 AM

James, you probably know this, but just in case. The level for the tip fluid was raised above the imprinted marks by Porsche. Do you have that Service Bulletin information?

It is so clean. How do you keep it like that?

axl911 · axl911's Garage

JW,

Congrats on the successful rebuild! Your clean engine makes mine looks like a dumpster.

Anyway, the line seemed to work for you. Let me know how the new lines go, and whether the 30R9 came off easily on your as it did on mine.

---
anthony

iangray100 · 02-06-2007, 12:34 PM

Steve, I will be refilling my Gbox any day and would be interested if you could mail me a copy of the info or advise what the newer levels are from Porsche for the tiptronic box levels.

thanks
Ian

JWPATE · 02-06-2007, 01:39 PM

Good news on the oil leaks. Both are corrected!
After having so carefully flattened the chain case surfaces and
the covers, I had neglected to notice those two caps for the
tensioners. They also are magnesium and neither was flat. After
getting the distributors back out today, so I could see, it was
clear that the 1-2-3 side was also leaking from the tensioner cap
and not from the chain cover. Both flat now and surfaced.
Several more minutes at idle and no leaks anywhere. I will get it
out on the road soon.

Steve - Thanks for a reminder on the Tiptronic oil level; yes, I
have that bulletin included in my WSM. In the photo you can see
where I have added a yellow line for the corrected 80 degree
lower level. The max level line is there too but blocked from view
in the photo.

Ian - They increased the capacity by ½ a liter and that makes the
new lines: New min. level at 3 mm below old max line – New
max. level 15 mm above old max line.

Anthony- I will let you know when the German Fuel Injection hose
arrives.

stevepaa · 02-06-2007, 01:49 PM

Good. Just wanted to be sure.
And what did you use to keep everything so clean underneath?

JWPATE · 02-06-2007, 02:08 PM

Steve,
I usually use a spray bottle of that Oil Eater cleaner from Costco, along with a bucket of water and sponge.

stevepaa · 02-06-2007, 02:41 PM

Thanks, I must get some of that.

iangray100 · 02-07-2007, 02:09 AM

thanks guys .

The weather in Vegas must be very kind to cars....in the UK even a new car off the truck is dirtyer than your car James..amazing and an excellant thread.

I will start my full engine rebuild next week ....no reason other than 125Kmiles on the clock and starting to weep alittle.
Its a lot easy to rebuild a working engine than one that has died or went bang!!

Ian

MBEngineering · 02-07-2007, 03:28 AM

HI Ian which engine are you rebuilding, is it the same as JW's

regards mike

iangray100 · 02-07-2007, 05:13 AM

Yep 1992 C2 and Tiptronic

JWPATE · 02-07-2007, 01:17 PM

Thanks fellows and Ian – best wishes for your rebuild. I could
not agree with you more that it is due. New rubber, seals, lines
and etc. are certainly appropriate after this many years, never
mind the mileage. These are just wonderful cars to work on, and
I hope you enjoy the experience as much as I have.

BTW I don’t suppose either of you English contributors know of
my friend Norman Geeson of Peterborough? Not likely I suppose,
he is a Rolls/Bentley guy (the best one there is).

I got the new air filters today but still am not ready for the open
road. I knew from the strip-down that something was amiss in
the ignition, for the secondary distributor cap looked like new,
with no evidence whatsoever of current having been through
there. So today I narrowed the search down to a faulty coil, and
will have to wait for a new one (though it runs just fine on the
other).

I have a few other tasks remaining anyway. Front shocks
tomorrow and then new door seals.

DW SD · 02-07-2007, 04:16 PM

James,
Just curious, can you change the crank seal on the crank pulley end without disassembling the engine? Seems like it should be able to, but I haven't seen that type of seal carrier before.

Doug

JWPATE · 02-07-2007, 05:58 PM

Doug, If I understand you correctly - the answer is yes.

Assuming that one first gets the exhaust, sheet-metal, heat/noise
shields, pulley and engine hanger out of the way first, then yes
the pulley end oil seal can be changed with the engine still in the
car – but supported from below.

The pulley end seal is a push fit inside the number eight crank
bearing, just as it has always been on 911 engines. The
difference with the 964 is that the crank has a taper nose
extension (added to support the combined pulley/vibration
damper). The old seal can be removed as before, however the
P216 (photo pg. 3 this thread) tool will not help in getting a new
seal installed. The P216 will not accommodate that nose
extension and therefore some other method must be used.

It would be no problem for someone with a metal lathe, to make
up a 216 style tool long enough to clear the nose extension. I
don’t know of such an effort though. Also, this is the only
example I can site, where the Porsche WSM lists a tool (P216a)
for use, which will not actually do the job.

SP2 · 02-08-2007, 08:50 PM

Wow, what a great thread. How did I miss this? I was just reading the section on stud removal. Looks like Christian developed a new device, but his original device worked perfectly on my SC stud.

JWPate, what color is you car. It looks like my wine red?

DW SD · 02-08-2007, 09:19 PM

James,
Thanks for the explanation! Just what I was seeking.

Doug

JWPATE · 02-09-2007, 02:53 PM

Yup, the color is wine red. I believe Porsche called it Velvet Red.

OK guys, anyone done new front struts lately? Nothing to do
with the rebuild, but while waiting on the new coil I am replacing
the front shock struts – rear shocks were done while the engine
was out.

Do this exercise, and you will quickly have the strut out and on
the bench. Must be extra careful with the three plastic wire clips.
They will be brittle with age, I just ordered new ones.

When you come to the 22 mm nut at the top of the shock shaft,
be prepared. The WSM allows that “a 7 mm Allen wrench may be
needed to prevent the shaft from turning”. Gee thanks!
Seriously, the special cut-away tool with an Allen wrench are
certainly needed to assemble the new strut – but will be unlikely
to loosen a nut that has been there for years and years. Even if
Otto, the human gorilla, did use a torque wrench to install them,
they will have gone on at 59 pounds. Try to remove them with
the WSM setup and you will need to place an extension arm on
your Allen wrench in order to generate some serious torque –
and then your little 7 mm wrench will break. Ask me how I know
this.

Something more powerful was required and what I ended up
using was a pipe wrench as the quickest expedient. Of course, it
ruins the shock strut, but that item is headed for the trash bin in
any event.

I don’t really need to mention that the pipe wrench is only for the
initial breaking of the joint – obviously you must compress the
spring till loose, before actually removing the nut.

Before you trash the old strut, take the time to measure the
effective length, so you will be able to adjust the new strut to
match.

Once everything is apart and cleaned, the first thing you should
do is cut a ¼ inch notch in the bracket which later will hold the
brake line. Such a notch will permit the brake line to be attached
(or removed) without breaking the hydraulic integrity, and thus
save you a bleed job.

Then building up the new strut is a piece of cake. Use whatever
spring compressors you have access to, and take that new nut to
59 pounds using the tools shown (I used a closed end wrench to
extend leverage on the 7 mm Allen – it will take the spec. torque
without breaking).

Back in place and again, this part is a cake walk. Do observe the
factory note that the two lower bolts are special items (100 lb.
torque). Either refit the two originals, or if you have lost or
damaged them, then order new factory items – no substitutions.

JWPATE · 02-12-2007, 03:07 PM

HIGH PRESSURE FUEL HOSE

Another disappointment today. The shipment of high pressure German fuel injection hose arrived and does not look right. This hose has no inner liner whatsoever – just the same makeup throughout with a fabric cord half way through. It looks like the same hose which I got from our host Pelican.

Sorry, and for me at least, the SAE product looks like a superior hose. As I have had no problems with it, I shall just leave well enough alone.

Again, there just seems to be no practical way to obtain the correct German hose, as original to our cars. I will be in Berlin again later in the year, and see about it then if I don’t forget.

JasonAndreas · 02-12-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JWPATE
The shipment of high pressure German fuel injection hose arrived and does not look right. This hose has no inner liner whatsoever – just the same makeup throughout with a fabric cord half way through. It looks like the same hose which I got from our host Pelican.

What about just ordering the fuel lines directly from Porsche? (or did I miss that part?)