AX motor

[J P Stein]

I'm doing some long range planning for a new AX engine for my car. E Mod has a max displacement of 3.2L for a SOHC engine. Mid range power is the hot ticket for AX (IMO) tho the ability of an engine to spin to 7-7.5 K means less shifting.

The obivious choices are a short or long stroke 3.2.
Money rears it's ugly head at this point along with a question. Did the Carrera 3.2Ls come exclusively with
Nikiasil cylinders or is it a crap shoot like the 3.0Ls?

I have no problem with the long stroke engine, in fact the long stroke mid range *should* be advantagous....my WAG for the day. I'm aware of the rod bolt issues of this engine, but other than that, will the crank live at 7K+ rpms in squirt mode?
Any other issues?

TAI

[brp914]

crapshoot - I have a '87 and a '88. A mahle and a ks.

[Steve@Rennsport]

JP:

Indeed, a crapshoot.

Thankfully, a sharp soul can spot the differences with an inspection from the bottom and that may be helpful to you.

If I was going to spin a 3.2 to 7K and back using engine braking, I would strongly recommend either ARP rod bolts or Pauter rods, and better valve springs (we use Aase) with Ti retainers.

Its all about insurance and these items cost FAR less than the consequences of such failures.

[tech 1]

The crapshoot is ok! If you end up with alusils,you can have them changed to nikasils. They are bored slightly,then nikasil plated.They work well.If you plan to use the pistons over they must be cleaned,throughly inspected,and then sent with the cylinders to U.S.Chrome.Arp bolts are a must,however given my druthers I'd use Pauter rods or Carillo's.We use both in our shop.They are both works of art.Steve gives you great advise! Valve springs should be changed also. We use Assco or Elgin. Titanium retainers help with the high revs too. Tim.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by J P Stein
I'm doing some long range planning for a new AX engine for my car. E Mod has a max displacement of 3.2L for a SOHC engine.

AFAIK, you can run unlimited displacement engines in E-Mod as long as you meet the 1800 lb. minimum weight requirement, with driver. 3200cc is the limit for the 1700 lb. minimum. Unless you are planning to get your car weight down below that, or are budget-limited, you might want to think about 3.6-3.8L Porsche power as well. It is pretty difficult and expensive to build a 914 to compete with the EM crowd, with their big block motors and 3-rotor Mazda engines with unlimited porting.

TT

[J P Stein]

True on all counts, a tough road to hoe particularily with a driver of my limited talents. So, what's your point?

Maybe I can find a " Pro from Dover" to drive the thing and be competitive at a Tour event. The few E Mod cars I've seen around here are rat bastards.....er ...under developed.

The time differences I've seen from E Mod to FP, XP or even SS are not that great...mostly....the 2006 Nats show that. If you happen to have a nationally competitive driver/car in your region, you're prolly screwed regardless of class.....but that don't mean it's not fun.

Since I have tire issues and am limited by what I can make work up front, light is good.....thus I'll shoot for 1700 with driver.

[David]

Do you really mean E-mod? I've competed for many years in Emod at nationals in a 3-rotor '58 sprite and I can't imagine a Porsche beating the top E-mod cars. BTW, don't look at this year's national results for a comparison.

[J P Stein]

Originally posted by 125shifter
Do you really mean E-mod? I've competed for many years in Emod at nationals in a 3-rotor '58 sprite and I can't imagine a Porsche beating the top E-mod cars. BTW, don't look at this year's national results for a comparison.

Neither can I....but that don't mean I'm gonna roll over & piss on my self.

The Porsche problem...if I can call it that...is that
the really fast guys generally don't run SCCA. They prefer to cherry pick TTOD at PCA events, I guess. There are a few that do and I know of one ....he'd be D mod, I think...that runs top 5 at SCCA events in NoCal....of course he's a 914 guy & don't count, eh? Best I could do was 37th out of 200 at the same event at Mather Field in 2005......too old, too slow.

As to the National results....get used to it. The venue has changed to asphalt. The old rules don't apply. Best to get the motor in back, go light & get on with it.

We're straying off topic. If ya wanna show me the futility of my endevors, I'm over at the AX forum also.

[David]

Fordahl's 914 times were usually pretty close to ours and we had a local guy with a rotary 914 that was pretty fast in E-mod. Lately it seems like 400hp is the norm though.

BTW, my buddy with the sprite sold it a few months ago so he could buy a Formula SCCA car. I drove it last weekend at TWS. What a blast! It was a DE so there were mostly street cars but with only 170hp I could pass any car on the track.

[Randy W]

JP, if you go the 3.2L route.. failure will be at the rod/bearing interface most likely. i would not worry about pistons that much - but go KS if you have a choice. What I would worry about is oil starvation - so cross drill and groove the crank and put a big oil pump and oil tank in there with big lines that will not collapse.

Personally, I would just go 3.6/3.8 and be done with it. Then pick the class (XP, Mod) depending on who shows up. Good luck!

[J P Stein]

Randy:
I was damn close to the XP minimum weight (& way under weight for FP) before I started
this latest round of mods. I'm not against the idea, but I'm not adding ballast. The XP rules are unclear about removal
of the windshield *frame* also.

I have the good Mr. Wiener down this way for motor advice & am smart enuff (marginally) to pay careful attention when he speaks My query on the PCs was about the Nikasil aspect, pistons will need to be upgraded for valve clearance which precludes Alusil. The answers I got make me lean towards the SS 3.2L as there is no $$ to be saved. I'm also going to query Steve about the EFI unit that Leeds had added to his car.

This is gonna cost me.....the hell with retirement, it's prolly over-rated nohow.

[Steve@Rennsport]

JayPee:

To hell with retirement; you & I have longer odds than most about that and for that reason, I've learned to 'live the moment',...

Good sound advice (as usual) from Mr. Wells; the 3.2's (and others) are well known for some oiling issues when operated at high RPM's and IMHO, those need to be addressed just as he outlined. I'd do the same for any 3.6/3.8 motor, too.

The only thing about the big motor installations in a Sixer is the need for a converted and reinforced 915. No 901 can handle that for very long no matter what is done to them.

Regarding EFI, we've had REALLY great success with the installation of the plastic 3.6 intake manifold into the 3.0/3.2 motors and adding 6 ITB's under that. Add a programmable Engine Management such as DTA and you have a totally amazing package. It makes big power with a very flat torque curve and MFI-type throttle response.

Not cheap, but you really do get what you pay for.

[J P Stein]

Steve:
I had to lite up a smoke when you said "not cheap".
I still have to live long enuff to pay for this stuff, ya know.....

I can see my obit now.
Mr Stein died at work on a double time day trying to pay off Porsche debts.....and he was still slow

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally posted by J P Stein
Steve:
I had to lite up a smoke when you said "not cheap".
I still have to live long enuff to pay for this stuff, ya know.....

I can see my obit now.
Mr Stein died at work on a double time day trying to pay off Porsche debts.....and he was still slow

I figured you might,...

ROFLMAO,...Thats really a GREAT obit.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Steve@Rennsport
Regarding EFI, we've had REALLY great success with the installation of the plastic 3.6 intake manifold into the 3.0/3.2 motors and adding 6 ITB's under that. Add a programmable Engine Management such as DTA and you have a totally amazing package. It makes big power with a very flat torque curve and MFI-type throttle response.

I need more info about this setup, Steve! And PICTURES! I need PICTURES! I am having a hard time imagining what a "plastic 3.6 intake manifold" with "6 ITB's under that" on a 3.0-3.2 looks like!?!? You are using the Jenvey ITBs, no?

BTW, hope you are feeling well now and glad to see you back on the forums.

TT --managed to retire without dying at my desk, but definitely can't figure out how to pay for all this fancy stuff!

[Steve@Rennsport]

Hi Tom:

LOL,..I'll have pictures (as well as dyno results) pretty darn soon and you'll not be disappointed,...

Preliminary numbers showed 277 HP on a STOCK 3.2 Carrera with headers and our race muffler. Jenvey's indeed!

Thank you sir,...I am feeling better. Since I cannot actually do any work for another 4-5 weeks, I have more time for paperwork, forums, etc,...