Future rebuild - what to start buying

[toddu]

I know I have a rebuild in the future. Car runs fine currently, but with age and mileage, I know it's inevitable at some point. Plus I know I'll want to squeeze more HP out of it at some point as well.

So, my question is - if I have an idea of where I want to go with the future build (currently a 3.0, thinking bumping up to 3.2 w/carbs, etc) what can I start looking for now to help spread the costs of parts.

For example, if I find a set of 3.2 heads, what specifically should I be looking for, or avoiding? Or, if a set of PMO's come up, same question.

I know it's a very broad question, just looking for a little feedback so I can avoid buying what appears to be a good deal on something used, but would end up being the wrong part for whatever reason.

Thanks guys!

[Grady Clay]

toddu,

There are lots of different approaches to choose from. If you buy new spare parts at reasonable cost, you will be ahead in the long run. Even if you change your mind, NOS has been historically very valuable.

Another approach is to buy distressed engine cores. Some can be rebuilt and others parted out. I am in favor of building a spare replacement engine while you continue to enjoy your healthy 3.0.

Collecting the right set of parts; say a 74.4 crank & rods, a new set of 100 mm Mahle Nikasil, twin plug ignition, the right case, heads, etc. gives you the opportunity to “do it right.”

Being sorta in the “junk 911 engine” hobby business is both fun and allows you access to cool parts at bargain prices. You will win some and loose some but overall you will find out and get what you want. Great education.

Once you have your “replacement installed and running, then you can rebuild your original SC 3.0 without any time pressure. It would be interesting to poll how long Pelicans take to home-build their engines. I suspect the average may be one year.

Best,
Grady

[euro911sc]

Grady: you should start that poll... but, split it. One for 1st time builders and one for those who are on their 2nd/3rd/4th etc... I'm pretty sure the 1st timers will be on the yr+ side and the others more like 3-6 mos or less for guys such as yourself.

Toddu:

I was in your shoes... except my engine was already dead If I could have afforded a second running engine to use while rebuilding I certainly would have gone that route.

You have to spend hours on eBay and watch the 911 Classifieds on both Pelican and Rennlist. Also early S Registry if you are building one of those. This has to become a total routine and almost around the clock. The deals are there, you just have to be quick and lucky

Outside of my head job which was expensive, I'm probably well under $1500 in parts for my OEM 3.0 rebuild. Charity and time (going on 18 months) has allowed me to scavenge all kinds of barely used/NOS/new parts.

My big costs are tools and heads.

Its good that you are starting now. Regardless of your direction there are many parts that you will need:

* Gasket/seal kit for top and bottom
* Valve cover kit
* An exhaust system worthy of your new motor
* twin plugged heads/valve covers
* Main bearings (slight risk here if you need a regrind)
* lay shaft bearings
* New chains and ramps
* Optional new hardware
* Performance head studs
* Light flywheel probably
* Sealants etc..

Grady can add more light here on things that you can use regardless of motor direction.

Best regards,

Michael

[toddu]

Appreciate the feedback guys.

For a little clarification, my car is not my daily means for transportation, so I would be ok without for a period of time. While I consider myself pretty handy, do most of my own work, and really bought the car to give me something to tinker with, I'm personally going to leave something as important as the motor to someone more experienced in that department than myself. I'm also somewhat interested in keeping matching numbers (probably pointless), so wouldn't buy another engine to build while leaving the current one in so I can drive it around. So, my basic thought was, if I do come across some of the bigger components I know I'm going to need for sale and used what am I looking for. Grady mentioned 100mm heads. Info like that, so if I see 98mm used heads I don't go and buy them (just throwing that out as an example).

Or, maybe I don't even need to worry about this as potentially the hired rebuilder has sources for this type of thing anyway.

[Porschekid962]

Tools, tools, tools. Get the right ones and life is much easier.

Engine stand
Torque wrench
5mm allen for a ratchet, to tighten rocker arms
Feeler guages
Gloves
Parts cleaners
Trays to clean parts in
Brushes etc. to clean parts with
Jackstand, motorcycle jack, some way to get engine out of car and on stand.
Rubber floor tiles and comfortable shoes
A sheet of steel (stainless is better) to cover your bench with
Gasket kits
Bearings, rod and main
RSR rocker arm seals
Timing chains
Piston/cylinders or if your lucky new rings
Cams
Exhaust
Resurface rocker arms
Send out or clean oil tank yourself
Send out or clean oil pump yourself
Powdercoat engine tin
Clean, paint, or get a new engine shroud
Spark plug wires
Spark plugs
Rebuild dizzy (send out for recurve)
Exhaust and muffler
Valves
Valve springs
Valve spring retainers
New engine mounts
New transmission mounts
Fuel filter
Possibly fuel pump
Clean up the ol transmission
Rebuild your cv's
Replace "sound" pad

Take your time.

[boba]

+1 to the above comments.

Before you start to buy anything spec out the build. It is good to be able to describe the characteristics you are seeking(torque, peak HP, 25hr motor or 100,000 mile) and how you will be using the car street, street/track, track only. Think it through from induction to exhaust, oiling, ignition and engine management. Once you know everything will work together you can then develop a bill of materials to work from and check things off as you find them. Realize if you change one component it can flow through the entire build.

In the past I have come across 1 interesting part and then created the build around that, not the recommended approach.

Regards,
Bob

[ROWSC]

As someone who is about ready to fire up my first rebuild (18 months) I suggest you heed boba's advice and know exactly what you plan to build. If you make ANY changes to the stock set up, budget time "waiting for parts." It took me three months to get everything I needed to make the air ducts work AFTER I thought I had everything.

Having a plan also allows you to budget accurately. Avoid the temptation to alter your plan mid-course. The "deal" you get on one part can easily be offset by the added costs to make the part work. I left the exhaust until the end (it gets bolted on last, right?) and was shocked when I found my options were SSIs with primary tubes too small for my configuration or $3,500 custom headers to allow me to run both heat and stock style muffler (parts I bought on sale).

If you just want something to tinker with then maybe a Porsche is not the car for you. One, they are Expensive. Two, they are addicting. I understood neither of these points when I got mine. Today, however, I appreciate the advice "If you want more horsepower, remove the stereo." It is a lot cheaper to make your car lighter.

Welcome to the club, leave your checkbook at the door.

Rich

[911quest]

I have to agree with the above statements You read about a lot of people getting in over there head and trying to hard to make there engine "perfect". What I did is bought a core 2.2T engine and a gasket kit take it apart see how it all works put it back together and installed it in my car. I know it won't last forever but it was alot cheaper of a learning curve then going at it full steam with my wallet wide open.

[efhughes3]

Hmmm, the idea of the poll to find out average build time is a good one. I'm curious. I've got almost 3 months on mine and I've not gotten any parts back yet from machining.

BTW, get the layshaft bearings first....they're a little hard to come by right now, and pretty pricy at about $40.

[SXSMAN]

Not much to add from the above . How ever after getting my cylinders and heads back I was rather surprised to find that a common item such as wrist-pin retainers ( an item I feel should be renewed at a time like this ) was not in stock and had to come out of Germany .

Shouldn't take too long but still a hold-up at this point .

Always the little things that trip you up ...............(well at least me ) .

SxS

[TibetanT]

Good luck with your project!

Also, most important as all above have said, AND don't forget to buy Wayne's How to book. If nothing else, Wayne's book will help you with asking the right questions of the mechanic doing the work and to purchase the right stuff for your rebuilt 911 engine.

Take your time and have fun while doing it...no rush is a must.

Hey Wayne, how's that for a sales pitch? ha.