The real price for a 911 overhaul

[Henry Schmidt]

Now I know why I don't make any money.

I recently received an email that contained an estimate for an overhaul on a 911 SC.
His question: why is your price so much lower?

Here's the estimate he got from a SO Cal shop. What do you think?

BTW: This shop was recommended by Bruce Anderson.

Labor
65 hours @ $120/hr= $7800.00

Sublet machinist:
Cylinder heads/Valve job $950.00
Cam towers resurfaced $150.00
Connecting rods rebuilt/balance $375.00
Rebuild counter shaft $550.00
Balance flywheel/clutch PP $150.00 (Optional)
Shipping $150.00 or so
Powder paint engine tin $300.00
Sublet gold/Cad #2 $300.00

Parts:
Upper engine gasket kit $625.00
Lower engine gasket kit $125.00
Piston & cylinder set $4000.00 or so
Exhaust valves $950.00
Intake valves $650.00
Counter shaft bearing set $125.00
Timing chains $200.00
Cylinder head stud set $600.00
Main bearing set $275.00
ARP connecting rod nuts/bolts $300.00
Rocker arms $800.00
Oil return tubes $125.00
Rod bearing set $350.00
Main bearing set $250.00
Engine oil $45.00
Oil filter $20.00
Fuel filter $45.00
Timing chain rails $35.00
Spark plugs $35.00
Rocker arm shafts $400.00
Drive belts $30.00
Heater and vacuum hoses $125.00
Supplies, Hazardous waste & hardware $100.00

[911 Engine rebuild estimate continued]

Labor $7800.00
Sublet $2925.00
Parts $10,210.00
Tax $842.33
Miscellaneous other $500.00
Total $22,277.33
Estimate $23,000.00 (Sight unseen)

Does your car have Carrera type chain tensioners? $550.00 or so
What is the condition of your clutch? $1000.00 or so
How many miles do you have on your car?
What is the condition of your fan and fan housing? (cracking, etc)
Is your alternator OK?
Is your flywheel within factory specifications?
What condition are your camshafts in, are they pitted?
What condition is your exhaust and muffler in?
What is the condition of your engine sound pad? $150.00 or so
What is the condition of your motor mounts? $100.00 or so
What is the condition of your ignition distributor?
What is the condition of your ignition distributor vacuum pot?
Are you interested in more power?
Possible porting of cylinder heads for more power
Possible other camshaft profiles for more power
What is the condition of your gearbox/Syncronizers etc?
We recommend a Carrera oil pump, these are $1000.00 or so.
PLEASE DON'T ASK WHAT SHOP OFFERED THIS ESTIMATE. IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO RIDICULE ANOTHER SHOP. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO CHARGE ANY AMOUNT THEY SEE NECESSARY TO STAY IN BUSINESS.

[asphaltgambler]

So they must be including an aftermarket turbo set-up and stand alone EFI for that price??

[rvanderpyl]

I'd say that if this quote is without seeing the motor, then they are covering their *ss on every possible thing that could be wrong. And from the looks of the items the only thing that is going to be left of the original motor is the case...

Got to admit that the hourly rate is a beauty, is that normal? If so then the next time a client complains about my rates I;m going to tell them, 'Hey, just be glad I'm not your mechanic'

[jbell959]

Looks like a deal

[john walker's workshop]

gotta raise my rates.

[kenikh]

$120/hr is on the high side for west coast metropolitan area mechanics, but not out of this world. I'd say that this rate would be in line with an in-the-city SF mechanic. I have a mechanic I use in Bellevue, WA that is considered expensive ($100/hr), but their work is great, they are super fair, with no BS.

If that is a fixed bid, I'd run away screaming, regardless of the BA referral. That bid is a worst case CYA bid, which should be used only for reference in setting the outer bounds of worst case expectations of cost. Is it just me or do some of the parts prices appear to have a HEAVY markup on them?

Henry, that bid is probably the best piece of advertising for the excellent services you offer...at a much fairer price with much fairer and more personal service. Oh yeah, the fact that I have never read a complaint regarding your work on this board speaks volumes.

[kenikh]

Same goes for JW!

[davidppp]

Yeeeha!

I'm off to Califonia in the morning...have torque wrench will travel..

Kind regards
David

[MBEngineering]

HI i am on the next plane over at that labor rate $120, as i am on $55 a Hour

regards mike

[sammyg2]

What shop offered that estimate? oops, I forgot you told me not to ask

[asphaltgambler]

Did anyone notice that the longblock labor est was 65hrs but the cylinder head work labor was subbed out and on top of that??

Good Gawd!!

[briankeithsmith]

Yeah, I'm not even a pro, and I can tear down my engine and rebuild it in less time than that...

Brian

[asphaltgambler]

My contacts say 40 hrs for normal 3.0 / 3.2 street engine rebuild which INCLUDES basic valve work (Engine out of car). Of course pulled studs, damaged components are an exception.

As a technician the labor hours alone are more than 'padding', more than excessive, I think it's d@mn close to thievery

[JP911]

Why not just go buy a replacement motor...or maybe 2 or 3 in case 1 breaks?

[cstreit]

You COULD buy one from Porsche for that price..

I wish I could get away with that!...

In one place it says "sight unseen" but calls for replacement of rocker shafts and arms, pistons and cyl's, and "rebuilding the countershaft". Why?

What's rebuilding the countershaft?

[Dan in Pasadena]

I'm in metro L.A. and I've only seen prices of about $85 an hour. I know one shop that is still charging $70. I know some charge more but why do you have to go to them when others charges are more reasonable?

I'm not remotely an expert but isn't $1000 for a clutch when the engine is already out like double what it should be?! To me, this estimate is so over the top I can't imagine any knowledgeable 911 fan saying, "Uh, okay yeah do it".

[cab83_750]

Henry's products including his prices almost make it impractical for DIYers. It cost 'almost' as much to have Henry do your rebuild than doing it yourself.

Too bad for Henry I like being greasy. heh heh heh.

[bavaria911]

Henry,

Please keep (squat and hold... AirBorne talk) your reasonable prices and we'll be doing business in the future.

BTW - I visited the Porsche factory last year. To their "Classic / oldtimer" department and was given a tour of the rebuild area. I saw 3 x 911RS's, a few 356's and a special 1950s Spyder Racer. I asked the question on rebuilding a complete 2.4 MFI motor to factory spec's and new parts. I was told, if I supplied the motor the est. cost is 23.000 Euros !!!! Which is now $1.30 to 1.00 E conversion.

Bavaria

[Laneco]

23K and I don't see headstuds. You'd think for 23K there would be new headstuds. Did I miss it?

You know what? Maybe this shop really DISLIKES this fellow and is trying to run him off.

angela

[FIN]

Always thinking in a different way, I might suggest that the bid may be based on the client, not the motor.

You know, a guy that would keep coming back to complain about a noise 1.5db higher than normal or "it doesn't feel right" or ?????

Fin

(edit - two of us thinking the same way)