Best Engine Rebuilder/East Coast

[novadia]

Hello Pelicans,

I am a new owner with my first Porsche. I own a 1969 2.0 911t, with the usual minor issues. I have read with horror the nightmarish stories regarding a certain unnamed Cali. motor shop. I am looking for some suggestions for east coast engine rebuilders. I am looking for a simple original rebuild without to many frills. Can anyone please suggest a honest decent shop. Thanks.

[TimT]

The east coast is huge!!

There are many capable shops on the Atlantic side!! Where are you located? helps if you fill in some of that info in your profile..

Of course we build lots of engines..and recognize that there are many other quality engine builders here on the right coast

[c2turbo]

On The East coast JBRacing does great machine work and builds 15 to 20 porsche race motors a month for some of the largest porsche race teams ans are very reasonable.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Rudtners Racing and Musante Motorsports are some of the best folks in the NE,............

[novadia]

sorry guys I forgot some key info. I live in the metro new York area, and I have met with some wonderful mechanics on long island, the problem is they are quoting me over $20000 to upgrade my car, when all I want is a reliable stock engine I can enjoy. I do not intend to track the car, just run through countryside roads hugging the corners. Anyone know what and who I should be looking for.

[304065]

The trouble with rebuilding a stock 130HP 2,0T is that it costs just as much as rebuilding a 190hp 2,4S, or thereabouts.

What is wrong with your engine and why do you conclude it needs to be rebuilt? The "usual minor issues"-- are we talking about oil leaks and low compression or pulled headstuds and blown pistons? The trouble with most 2,0 liter engines is that a LOT of parts need to be replaced, as they are either worn beyond specifications or there are new parts that conventional wisdom dictates should be installed, for example, the post-1980 chain tensioner idler arms and tensioners to replace the early sealed tensioners.

So what, exactly are the symptoms, and what are you looking to do with the car? I understand that you don't want to spend $20K building a track machine, OK, but some more information about your intended use would be helpful, e.g. would it justify the expense to increase engine power, or is that not something you care about? Knowing that information makes it possible to advise you to, for example, invest in a set of Mahle Nikasil 2,2E pistons and cylinders and aftermarket camshafts that woudld put the power level in the 155-160HP range.

As far as upgrades to the 2,0 here is everything I know. . .

Suggestions for warmed over 2.0 901/05?

Teardown of 1966 901/05 Engine

Assembling 1966 901/05 Engine- Phase I- Bottom End

[novadia]

Thanks for the input john, the truth is the history and shape of my engine is unknown. The PO only stored the car and never ran the engine. Thus I don't know if it was ever opened up, if Carrera tensioners were installed, etc. Compresion test showed very good results. Nonetheless I am pretty sure no works was ever done on the engine. I am trying to take a proactive approach because I like to take long drives and would rather have a somewhat large bill for an engine rebuild than a humongous bill for a new case. I am guessing that even if I only do the tensioner upgrade j might as well open up the engine.

[Rich76_911s]

Novadia,

I think one of your first steps should be picking up Wayne's engine rebuild book. It is full of TONS of information and will help you become and educated shopper, might even encourage you to build it yourself! ! !

John Cramer, Steve, and Tim really know their stuff and are great resources around here so I would highly recommend listening to them.

Here is a tech article titled: "Time to Rebuild?"
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_Engine_Rebuild/mult_engine_rebuild-1.htm

Doesn't sound like you need to have it done yet, but I only know the little bits you have posted here.

Here is a tech article on carrera tensioners, although a search will result in better answers:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_carrera_chain_tensioners/911_carrera_chain_tensioners2.htm

Here is a picture of an engine with tensioners:


As an engine rebuilder I have heard good things about these guys, but do not have any experience using them:
http://www.monteithrp.com/index.html

Get that engine tuned up and ready to run this summer instead of rebuilding the whole thing if you can. (see my signature for tips and reasons on why not to have your 911 engine rebuilt )

[novadia]

thanks for the help rich, indeed I have purchased waynes book and am awaiting its arrival. After reading yours and johns replies I think you might be right. A rebuild might premature, so then what are some good ways to gauge an engines quality?

BTW my name is Neil gentlemen, and I am grateful for the help.

[Matt Monson]

I will second what others have said and suggest doing more research before you dive into it feet first and decide that you really do need a rebuild.

If you choose to have someone build it for you, I can also second Musante Motorsports, as well as suggest Auto Associates of Canton as another option.

[304065]

Neil,

Do you have access to a digital camera? A few detailed photos of the engine compartment and engine would go a long way to assessing the baseline condition.

The next step is to make an inventory of oil leaks: how much and where? All the time or only when hot? Where, and in what quantity, is the accumulated crud? For example, a leaking seal around the oil thermostat is a few dollars, compared to a leak at the case parting line caused by a ham-fisted Turkey prior rebuilder using a screwdriver to scrape off the flange sealant, which necessitates a full teardown to properly repair.

How does the engine run? Hot or cold, where on the temp gauge under what kind of ambient conditions and load?

What does the oil look like? What is the condition of the spark plugs?

Any foreign object debris (FOD) noted in the oil? Have you removed the oil sump plate and the associated screen to check for particles? (Note that you will get copious quantities of oil falling out when this is removed, so be sure to drain the oil first and have a LARGE drip pan ready).

Once the basics are assessed, then it's time for more serious DIY diagnosis. Search here for "leakdown test" under my name, I went through the procedure for a fellow Pelican a while back. The leakdown is surprisingly accurate: when I tested my 1966 2,0 liter I found 45% leakdown in many of the cylinders, and unsurprisingly when I tore it down I found FIVE broken compression rings.

As far as other checks, the muffler and engine tin can be removed to give access to the chain box covers with the engine in the car. That will tell you what kind of tensioners you have, and it's a good way to check to see how worn the chains are.

Anyway, BEFORE you spend any money, the key is to gather as much information as you possibly can and then, and only then make the assessment. Many of the shops listed above are excellent, and there are a few more in the NY metro area. THAT recommendation comes down to the original question of "what do you want to do with the car" -- if you said Concours, you need a 100% original-looking rebuild, that gives you a different answer than if you wanted a good solid rebuild without particular attention to looks but a focus on reliability.

[RPMClassic]

John -

For the non DIY enthusiast ( ie checkwriter...)What do you figure is the range $$ for a STOCK top end" overhaul on a 2.2 and 2.4?

[304065]

It depends on the starting condition. A "top-end" as that term is used in the aircraft industry means: pistons, cylinders, rings, valves, springs, rod bolts, rod bearings (big and small). Basically you replace or restore to new condition everything you can access without splitting the case.

I would work backwards from the complete rebuild-- deduct the cost of a main bearing set and a flask of Loctite 574 and there's your top-end price. . . I KNOW the prices of the parts to do this right, recondition Biral cylinders and use custom JE's (about $2000 cheaper than NEW Mahle Nikasil). . . parts alone are around $8,000. Factor in 40 hours of labor and you are between $12,000 and $15,000, in my humble estimation. Race mods? Double and up.

I'm sure that will raise eyebrows among many but if you actually make a list of the required replacement parts and their prices you will see that I am right. Compromises and the re-use of questionable parts just increase the likelihood of a premature teardown. . . it must be done RIGHT the first time.

I have replaced things like the intermediate shaft sprockets, idler arms, idler sprockets, tensioners, oil pump (using one from an SC) all head studs, reconditioned rods, JE pistons, hone cylinders to 81mm, new valve springs, new valves (NOS ATE and SI stainless replacements). It all adds up.

Finally the cost of the special tools is not inconsiderable-- you can easily spend a couple thousand dollars on the basics required to do the job properly. Otherwise not worth doing IMHO.

[NY65912]

Well although I am partial................I can vouch for Rudtner's.

Bill built a kick ass little 3.0 screamer for me that put out 255 rwhp.

And presently working on my 3.8l monster that is under wraps.

There are always many types of engines being built at any given time.

Just a satisfied customer here!

[novadia]

Do you guys suggest any specific upgrades except for the chain tensioners. i.e. anything you couldn't live without. I am trying to learn about exactly what I want for my engine so that I am not taken for a ride by a mechanic.

[ONQRACIng]

I recommend Paul Schwarz from Cyntex, in PA..

Honest and very good. Working for D.A.S. at the moment..

[C-Pierce]

I recommend Rick Cabell in VT. 802-660-1900

PM sent.

regards
Chris

[sgoldberg]

Bill Rudtner is a very competent mechanic. My only suggestion in dealing with him is to have a very clear and detailed understanding of the costs involved!

[gtu935]

Thanks guys for the cudos. Average rebuild price for a stock engine is approx 8-10,000

Bill Rudtner

[novadia]

Hey Bill, when is a good time to come down to the shop and talk to you about a rebuild.