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3.6 dome size
Can someone tell me how many CCs a standard 964 piston dome is?
Also what is a typical cylinder head volume of a 964 head? Thanx Kirk
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1989 911 Carrera 4 (964) |
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Irrationally exuberant
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I measured 85.2cc head volume on a 3.6 I rebuilt.
I measured 36.7, 42.4, 38.9, 33.0cc for dome volume (for the same piston). Obviously, with such a wide range of numbers I wouldn't put to much stock in their accuracy. -Chris
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'80 911 Nogaro blue Phoenix! '07 BMW 328i 245K miles! http://members.rennlist.org/messinwith911s/ |
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Thanx Chris,
Here are my calculations for my compression ratio: COMPRESSION RATIO = (V1 + V2 + V3 - V4) / (V2+V3 - V4) WHERE: V1 = SWEPT VOLUME V2 = DECK HEIGHT VOLUME V3 = CYLINDER HEAD VOLUME V4 = DOME VOLUME 3.6 L BORE = 100mm STROKE = 76.4 mm CYLINDER VOLUME = PI/4 * BORE² * STROKE CYLINDER VOLUME = 0.7853982 * BORE² * STROKE V1 = SWEPT VOLUME V1 = BORE² * STROKE * 0.7854 = 10cm² * 7.64cm * 0.7854 = 600.05 cc V2 = DECK HEIGHT VOLUME V2 = BORE² * STROKE * 0.7854 = 10cm² * .095cm * 0.7854 = 7.46 cc (.95 mm DECK HEIGHT MEASURED DURING REBUILD LAST YEAR USING CRUSHED SOLDER METHOD) V3 = CYLINDER HEAD VOLUME V3 = 89.57 CC (MEASURED WITH BURETTE) V4 = DOME VOLUME WITH PISTON 1cm BELOW DECK, THEORETICAL VOLUME (WITHOUT DOME) WOULD BE: = BORE² * STROKE * 0.7854 = 10cm² * 1cm * 0.7854 = 78.54 cc MEASURED VOLUME USING BURETTE = 44.4 CC DOME VOLUME = THEORETICAL VOLUME - MEASURED VOLUME = 78.54CC - 44.4CC = 34.14 CC COMPRESSION RATIO = (V1 + V2 + V3 - V4) / (V2+V3 - V4) = (600.05 + 7.46 + 89.57 - 34.14) / (7.46 + 89.57 - 34.14) = 662.94 / 62.89 = 10.54:1 The deck height was measured when I rebuilt the engine. Although the pistons were machined to lower compression, I dont see how the deck height measurement would change, as only the dome of the piston was machined. The problem is this: My target compression ratio was 9:1. I had SoK machine the domes of the pistons down. Since then I have had the piston tops coated with thermal barrier, and the side skirts coated with dry lube. Now I am doing a compression check and finding numbers that I would have expected if the pistons were stock. Obviously 10.5:1 is too high for my supercharger project. Kirk
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1989 911 Carrera 4 (964) |
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The 964 heads apparently are typically ~90cc from factory, so my results are in line with that.
I decided to redo the measurements for the piston dome. The results are: Machined Piston: 33.068 cc dome volume = 10.38:1 CR Stock Piston: 36.242 cc dome volume = 10.87:1 CR Obviously SoK blew the machining, and only took off .5 points of compression, instead of the 1.5 points they were supposed to. (they said 9:1 was their target CR ) Result: I have 6 beautifully machined pistons with thermal barrier coated tops and dry film lubricant to use as paperweights. Kirk ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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1989 911 Carrera 4 (964) Last edited by kirkf; 03-09-2008 at 08:23 PM.. |
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Anybody have any ideas on how to fix this?
Kirk
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1989 911 Carrera 4 (964) |
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Kirk,
Removing the coating is not difficult; one VERY carefully tapes off the top ring lands and carefully bead blasts the coating off. I use minimal air pressure to accomplish this. The real issue is more complex. I've never machined a lot off these pistons and I am unsure one can safely remove enough material to hit your target CR, considering forced induction usage. I don't have one here to measure the dome thickness, but you might need different pistons to finish your project.
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Steve Weiner Rennsport Systems Portland Oregon (503) 244-0990 porsche@rennsportsystems.com www.rennsportsystems.com Last edited by Steve@Rennsport; 03-09-2008 at 09:30 PM.. |
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Thanx everyone for the replies.
I'll have to decide whether I want to pour more $$ into pistons with 40k on them or just buy new aftermarket pistons with the correct CR. Sigh. Kirk
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1989 911 Carrera 4 (964) |
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Kirk,
If you want to use a custom piston to finish this properly, I'd be happy to help.
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Steve Weiner Rennsport Systems Portland Oregon (503) 244-0990 porsche@rennsportsystems.com www.rennsportsystems.com |
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