Nickies Vs. Mahle

[CreatuR]

Hello!

I apologize if this topic has already been beatin into the ground on a previous post. However, I have been beating myself up on which direction to go and thought if I heard some personal experiences, it would help me make a decision.

I am rebuilding my '89 930 motor and I am upgrading to the following:

3.4 Liter @ 7.5:1
Twin plug, dual spring, titanium keepers, ported and polished
K27 Turbo
Kokeln Intercooler
Modified CIS fuel head
blah blah blah

The question is, should I go with Mahle or Nickies? I'm leaning toward the nickies due to the fact that I can get a complete package with some goodies from 1 source. (Cylinders, R&R I-beam rods, & JE Pistons w/ thermal tops & nonfriction skirts...)

However, a lot of people are recommending to go with Mahle due to the history of the parts and their experience.

I'm not concerned about cost on this topic, just performance!

So, what do I do??

[cnavarro]

If no one is going to say anything, I vote for the Nickies, but I'm biased :-)

[schnellmann]

With the price of Mahles today you can just about buy two sets of Nickies with JEs for the same money... at least at 98mm. Though the 95s are not that much cheaper last I checked.

Hell, I can get an entire brand new 400HP V8 crate motor (pick your brand) ready to hook up to water, fuel and electricity and run (shipped) for at less money than one set of 6 Mahle Ps & Cs.

I could have spent the money on Mahles for my build, but I didn't, mostly on principle. They want rediculous money for those things given their engineering and tooling costs are long since recovered. I understand exchange rates, small runs, etc., but seriously... their cost of goods can't even be anywhere near half of what they ultimately sell for. It's the Porsche Taxman trying to collect.

Anyway, this time I actually opted for QSCs + JEs instead of Nickies just because of price, and I don't regret it (yet). And if the QSCs fail or wear out too soon, I'll be giving Charles a call. And even if I had to get a new set of Nickes in addition to the QSCs, I'd still be money ahead over the Mahles.

OK, rant over.

Good luck... and don't forget to keep us posted on your build.

[356RS]

Nickies......almost what ever size you want, and then you can go with what ever piston company you want. But if your building a factory spec RS, RSR, etc. go with Mahles hands down. Just MHO. Oh Yes, one more thing. The Nickies are made in the USA. Also if you have questions on your Nickies that you ordered, you can make a phone call to the company and talk to the person who made them. Try that with QSC's or Mahle.

[cstreit]

I dunno who this cnavarro guys is (joking!) but I really like the Nickies. Haven't seen the cost of Mahle these days, but all other things being equal I'd go with LNEngineering. Impeccable work and a high-quality product. You get the benefit of the light J&E pistons without the skirt scuffing/piston slap problems of old. I've been using the J&E/Nickies setup for a few years in the racecar with no discernable wear or issues...

[schnellmann]

If you go with the QSCs and you have a problem, assuming you ordered them from Supertec, your can call and talk to Henry Schmidt. I'd rather talk to him than any machinst about my build troubles.

[kenikh]

I went w/ Nickies. There is no better cylinder.

[356RS]

Your right Troy. I forgot that Henry handles the QSC's. Your in good hands with Henry.

[jimbauman]

Originally Posted by schnellmann

With the price of Mahles today you can just about buy two sets of Nickies with JEs for the same money... at least at 98mm. Though the 95s are not that much cheaper last I checked.

Although, what must be the deal of the century on Pelican, are a set of Mahle 95mm 10.3:1 Ps and Cs for $3400... Why so cheap?

FYI the stock 9.3:1 Mahle set is $4200. A set of 98mm Mahles 9.8:1 is $5100. A set of 98mm Nickies with JE pistons from Pelican would run you under $3600.

JB

[Jeff Alton]

Try to buy the stock mahle's here and see what happens.....

Cheers

[cnavarro]

I'll throw out that up until this point, I typically have not stocked pistons on the shelf, leading to ~4-6 week lead times, depending on how busy JE is. I plan on stocking pistons for all the popular combos soon to remedy this deficiency. Unless I had a particular cylinder in the past on hand, it might take eons before I made them up to keep batch sizes large. Now, I'm almost always running cylinders and am only limited by aluminum supply (and if Alcoa's lead time goes through the roof), so lead time isn't really a problem (most of the time).

To try to control cost (and not have to raise the price), I've been buying aluminum when the market takes a dip, but it looks like unless I start getting creative, I might have to put a small material surcharge on each order, but I dread the day I have to do that and I am going to fight like hell to keep that from happening. I've only passed on one price increase in 8 years...

[schnellmann]

Originally Posted by jimbauman

Although, what must be the deal of the century on Pelican, are a set of Mahle 95mm 10.3:1 Ps and Cs for $3400... Why so cheap?

FYI the stock 9.3:1 Mahle set is $4200. A set of 98mm Mahles 9.8:1 is $5100. A set of 98mm Nickies with JE pistons from Pelican would run you under $3600.

JB

I think Pelican has stopped bothering to update the price on the Mahle P & C sets as you'll not likely be able to actually get them for a very long time (at any price) even if you decide to order them.

My understanding is that Mahle waits until they get a big bunch of orders (who knows what the number is) and then makes a production run. Andial often has them in stock, though. I think they are the North American distributor. If you're hell bent on Mahles you should try calling them and see what they have.

I guess the moral of the story is if you want the very best in quality and money does not matter - get the Nickies. I have not heard of one person yet who has regretted it.

If you want to spend less money (~$1000), try the QSCs. Overall, the finished product is very good where it counts (machined surfaces, Nikasil plating) but the cast surfaces are not absolutely perfect and the exterior coatings are not, shall we say, lovingly applied.

Either way, unless you get Mahles, you'd end up with JE slugs.

[hcoles]

the LN cylinders look to be the best you can get.. you can read on the LN website and it all makes sense compared to the cast Mahle parts. Better cooling and more mechanically stable. Re. JE pistons... there seems to be lots of threads on this... my thinking is if you know what you are doing matching the right piston to the cylinder and application you should be fine. It could be that not many people know more about this and 911 engines than Charles. Some other thoughts... all else being equal support people who post here and support US businesses.. maybe that's old fashioned.. so be it. On the rebuild I'm helping with we went with LN complete package.

[kirkf]

JEs with thermal barrier and side skirt coating look pretty. And they can be on your doorstep in 5 weeks with a custom CR. What more could you ask for?

Kirk
p.s. these just got delivered today and I wanted to show them off.

[cnavarro]

Speaking of JEs and photos, I have a few pictures of some of the odd-ball JEs I've done on my website, scatted throughout. If anyone cares :-)

http://lnengineering.com/morepistons/

JE can make some pretty awesome stuff if you know how to order it and are willing to pay for it.