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Daily dilemma
Well, things are progressing.... I got my carb bodies back from Paul Abbott at Performance oriented. He fit new plates, and rebushed the shafts. I'm glad I sent them now. I never could find a pulley bolt, and pelican didn't have one in stock. I didn't want to take the chance on having to order one from Deutschland, so I found a 12x1.5x30mm bolt at my local bolt house. I had planned on taking a hacksaw to it to shorten it, and the counter guy looked at me and said... "why don't you take it to the machinist next door?" I had been in the bolt shop dozens of times, but never knew there was a "real" machinist in the area. Turns out this has been the guy I've been trying to find for awhile--a true machinist. Fabricates with CAD, does tig welding, etc. Long story short (no pun intended), he cut my bolt off to 22mm for free. Fit like a charm. The mailman also brought me a present yesterday--a 3.2 Carrera intake. I've dreamt of a Megasquirt install for years (waay before this project). My thought is to get the motor up and running with carbs first, and see how they do. If I can get them tuned properly, I'll probably just leave them on the car. If not, I'll probably install the Carrera intake and MSII. Here are pics of the mockup with both....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248179366.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248179416.jpg and with the carbs..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248179442.jpg Let me know what you guys think.... Has anyone ever solved the 3.2 intake injector divot issue? I read one thread where the guy made bakelite spacers and blended the injector divot so the Carrera injector spray was not interfered with by the CIS divot in the head. I'd prefer a solution like this, as I'm definitely not pulling the heads off for the next 20 years or so!! We're getting close! |
mmmm pretty! Im looking at doing the mega squirt kit as well... Very impressive setup. What would be really trick, would be to use your carbs at Throttle Bodies and machine injector bosses in the manifolds :D
Looking forward to you post about your first fire and drive! David |
Wiring issue
Hi All,
Please read my post in the Tech forum about wiring the alternator... Thanks! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/491036-alternator-wiring-advice-914-6-conversion.html#post4829433 |
2.7
Hi, I received my case today. The seller sold me the case, and internals. I believe the stroke is 70mm X 90mm. I would really like to try and get more bore and stroke out of it safely. Maybe 74mm X 92 or 94, I have asked this before, however everyone say keep it stock. Can anyone tell me if a 2.7 case can handle 92 or 94mm? Let say I will get the pistons made from J&E, have the piston wrist pin relocated up some into the piston, in order to compensate for the stroke. I had the process done to my type IV engine. Will a 74mm fit into a 2.7 case?
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No on all counts. Stud spacing is too small and main bearings are the wrong size on 2.7 case.
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It seems to be pretty well known that the magnesium case[7R] is just about at the limit at 2.7---they got to 90mm by using the thinwall alloy barrel.If you look at how close the stud holes are ,to the edge of the cyl. spigot bore ,there just isnt any more room if you want to use inserts .I did timeserts and its close --casesavers must be marginal ,
I looked up Bruce Andersons book and it appears there were 92mm[2.8] and 95mm [3.0]cylinders,but lots of associated problems-he does not recommend them for a street engine.-----But nothing is impossible,so go for it ,if thats what you want. A used 3.2 or 3.6 might be cheaper in the long run. Good luck. [ Just my opinion---its worth what it cost!] |
I'll Look
Hi, thanks for responding. Tomorrow I'll look and see whats, what. 2.7 in a bug or 914 will work also. Being from the VW side and seeing what was done and not being able to, so everyone has stated, in the VW world. The Mag case of the type one VW case was supposed to only have 85mm, but it was taken up to 90mm and even 92 thin wall. The webbing and journals were still stock, but look what Gene Berg did with a stock case. That's way my questions, I'd love to try some 92 or even 94s in with a 74mm stroker; add custom J&E pistons with relocated wrist pins. Where can I find a copy of the Bruce Andersons book, need to keep hope alive
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Try here--http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/ShopCart/BOOK/POR_BOOK_bkptec-detail.htm
Porsche 911 Performance Handbook $25.95 Making your Porsche 911 run right and run fast is not a lot of hot air. These are not tall tales or even whale tales. One of America’s foremost Porsche-philes and 911 technical experts... more... |
WilCall
Hi, I hope to do a wilcall. I did when I ordered the rebuild and modify book, if so I'll pick up the books Saturday. Thanks very much
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As far stroke goes you have the clearance for a larger crank, but NO ONE makes one for the early crank journals. Berg made his own crank (clean sheet specs) and you are talking about offset grinding a Porsche crank. Only two cranks work in a 2.7 case: the 66mm and the 70.4mm 6 bolt main cranks. The 70.4mm crank is basically a 66mm crank offset ground from a 57mm rod journal to a 52mm (2.04") rod journal (variance in math is from differences in fillet radius). There is only the tiniest bit of meat on the 70.4mm crank to get a longer throw: you can go to 2" Clevite Nascar bearings which would get you a theortical stroke of 71.6mm (1.2mm longer) and only if you can maintain a reasonable fillet diameter after grinding. I come from the VW old school; my '71 Fastback has a Berg 5 speed, a 2 liter Berg cranked stroker motor on Mahle slipper skirt 88s, dual Weber DCNFs, Clyde Berg ported heads...the works. VW left a lot more meat on the motors for screwing around than Porsche did. I tired f---in around with the same questions you have now way back when. Take the shortcut and learn from what I have. |
jaybird840: Thanks for the alternator update - very useful! How's the progress? We're all looking forward to your performance stats with that engine in your 914. 0-60 in ???
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they look like std. inserts. Probibly ok but if you want the best chance of studs staying go to the bigger oversize insert installed buy Ollie's Machine - the "Old School" Porsche machine shop Santa Ana, CA 1-714-558-7334 in Cali.
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Looks like no inserts to me.
Ist size inserts [ana; timeserts] better than nothing, but if you want the best chance of studs staying in go to the bigger oversize insert installed buy Ollie's Machine - the "Old School" Porsche machine shop Santa Ana, CA 1-714-558-7334. |
Had a close look
Hi, well today I had a very close look. Yep the time serts are that close. I really don't want to throw money at this project. So now one option is turbing, 8.5 compression and enjoy the ride. I could still have the crank cross drilled and stroked, but maybe turbo charging will just have to do it. So now it back to reading.
Thanks again everyone |
but maybe turbo charging will just have to do it. So now it back to reading.
My experience with turbocharging a 2.7 case WILL lead to case studs pulling!!! Regardless of any inserts/timeserts. Just a matter of time. |
I still don't have the alternator issue worked out.... Any help?
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Wasn't my post any help?
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GSmith,
Yes, you're post was most helpful--thanks! I hope my post didn't sound ungrateful. I still haven't figured out what to do with the harness for sure. The 914 wiring diagram helps some. I just found this post, which I think will help me more than anything... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/394587-914-6-conversion-alt-s-please.html How I interpret these two comparative pictures is that my B+ connection will be a solo 8 gauge wire to the starter. The blue D+ wire on a 911 is actually red on the 914. So, 14ga brown to "d-", 14ga red to "d+" "DF" stays open (internally regulated alternator). I guess I'll wire it up like that, and see what happens... |
The green on the 914 might be the DF wire in a 911I just looked at the other thread and it looks like the green wire goes to the idiot light. which is required to make the alt. charge. Good luck
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update
Well guys,
I'm long overdue for an update. I figured out the wiring issue (I hope, anyway) and have continued with bolting on the accessories on the engine. Does the air deflector on the back of the alternator rest directly on the back of the housing as pictured? The diverter material is pretty soft, and it doesn't seem like a great way to keep the alternator and fan secure in the housing. If there is something wrong with this picture, please advise.... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121424.jpg I also decided to jump in headlong with the manifold porting project. I took the phenolic resin spacers, and used a sharpie to trace the inside diameter of the intake port as pictured. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121492.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121541.jpg I used the rotary files I borrowed from Jamie to begin to remove the material. As I got close, I used a 60 grit flapper wheel in a drill to smooth and blend them. Here are a few pics of the finished product. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121614.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121649.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121671.jpg As I was about halfway through with the project, a pair of PMO manifolds came up on eBay. Following Steve Weiner's advice, I purchased them. After I get the build finished, maybe I can do a couple of dyno runs with each set of manifolds to see what issues arise, and how effective the porting was (good or bad). Also, after a year of searching, I finally found a set of rain hats at a price I could afford. They arrived in better condition than they were described. My "mockup" pics are becoming closer and closer to "installation" pics. I have set aside the time to reassemble the carbs this afternoon. Hopefully they will be installed tonight. More later! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251121862.jpg |
Yes alternator air deflector is on correctly. I Use as big as posible washers and i-lock nuts or locktite , as you just tighten the air deflector nuts just so much before they crush it.
Don't forget the ground strap from one of the alt. studs and the engine case. Your careful step by step match porting is Looking good as well! |
Match porting
Hi, how about the match porting intake manifolf to head, any pic?
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Hey Effvee,
That's what is pictured. I am matching the intake port of the head to the intake runner of the manifold.... |
O
Hi, I thought that the 2.7 heads were CIS type? However forgive me, I just don't know Porsche. I'm just starting out with just a bar engine, not even a car. If I can get the engine right, a body will be the easy part. The 914/6 would be for me also, but only with a Audi 4 speed automatic. So again forgive my ignorance. If your heads are not CIS, what type are they? I say CIS due to the injector cutout in the head and I thought even the intakes had a cut out also.
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I looked at putting that auto box in my 911, but things are the wrong way around and they have a hypoid R&P,which doesent flip like the 915 box. Sorry to thread f*** |
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FV,
Yes, they are stock CIS heads. |
Jay, Its getting cooler with temps only in the 90s. Its almost time for a drive! Get that car running already. :)
You are doing great work. Let me know if you need anymore help. Jamie |
closer
In the words of the immortal Buddy Holly: "Every day, it's a'gettin closer, goin faster than a roller coaster....." Headers are on , Carbs and manifolds are on 97% complete (need air correction jets, and filter gaskets) Spark plugs are gapped and in (sure wish I would have chased the threads before I bolted the heads on:mad:) Fan pulley is now gloss black. All I lack now is plug wires, 4 sheetmetal screws for the fan shroud to blockoff plates, and to sort out my engine mount and oiling system. Awfully darn close!!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251757936.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251757981.jpg |
What size air correctors? I have some small ones you can drill out. Just stop by and pick them up.
btw, I am close to moving forward on a similar mid-engine car. Mine however will still be 4-cylinder power. Doh! I said too much already. :D |
It's off the stand!!!
OK,
Many updates since my last post. I got the remainder of the carb parts from Richard at PMO, and finished the carbs. Finally broke down and bought a set of the Magnecor 8.5mm KVS plug wires and installed them. I decided I needed a kick in the pants, so I put the engine stand on craigslist, knowing it would prompt me to get the engine back on the ground. Sure enough. Being a bit of a daredevil, I ended up removing the engine from the stand with a floor jack and a 2x6. Came down without incident. Finally, I had the opportunity this morning to attack the flywheel bolts without the interference of the engine stand. Bolts are in, loctited, and torqued to 110 lb/ft. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804462.jpg now for the clutch disc..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804489.jpg and the pressure plate.... (Glad Kennedy Eng. is a fan of Mexico Blue!!!!) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804535.jpg |
oil tank
I got started on the oil tank this week, too. I bought a roundy-round car oil tank off ebay about a year ago. I pulled the top off, and of course, the motor of the previous car was obviously blown--swarf everywhere in the tank. I really don't have several hundred bones for a new tank, so I stripped this one to the bare bones and cleaned it. I pulled all the fittings, and cleaned all the threads. I accidentally deleted the before pictures, but here are the afters....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804733.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804747.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804759.jpg |
Do I need cooling tin here?
OK Gang,
A couple of questions...... Do I need cooling tin pieces here? I obviously don't have them, and will have to locate them if needed..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804849.jpg and here???? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253804864.jpg Last, a 914/4 uses bolts that go all the way through the engine case and tranny to hold the two together. The 2.7 block will require studs to be inserted in the block that will hold the tranny on. Can I just use threaded rod in the correct size cut to length, or do I need to have some special studs made?? I test fit the tranny behind the engine, and we're almost there!!! Onward! |
Looky Looky!!!
It's amazing what an uninterrupted day of work can do. Look how close I am!!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253820712.jpg and another..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253820735.jpg I can almost smell the stench from the first startup!!!! More as it progresses.....:D |
Isn't that exhaust on backwards? but I like it!!
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jay, I think I have some extra engine tin sections that you need. Oh yeah, you need those parts. otherwise, the air will get blow out and not actually cool the cylinders. Are you going to run a full engine tin surround? many track cars do not. If you ever think you will sit in traffic don't go without them.
Looking good! Let me know if you need a hand with the installation. |
Thanks Jamie!! I figured out that the oil cooler will take care of blocking off the driver's side cooling issue. If you have the piece for the passenger side, that would be awesome. I'm trying to get the garage cleaned out so I can get it up on jackstands to install the engine. I still need to do the bulkhead mount, and clean the firewall where I removed the sound pad--I have no idea how to get all the old adhesive off. Goof-Off and scotchbrite, I guess. Sure is nice to be making progress. Still shooting to be on the road by October...
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....and the band played on.
I've only had time in 10 minute increments lately. Both my wife and daughter came down with H1N1 flu last week, and were both in bed for five days. As you can guess...no project time last week. I got the oil cooler back from Pacific Oil Cooler, and I have mixed feelings about it. They charged $120 to "rebuild" my oil cooler. I had previously pressure tested it, and only wanted it cleaned. I had read here that people have had it done for like $40. It was clean when it came back, but they obviously cut it apart, and the quality of the welds makes me wonder what kind of job they did with the cooler. Anyway, here is a picture of it installed. the finish is unusual as it looks like some kind of coating that is a sand-beige color. After I installed it, it occurred to me that I should have painted it black. It kinda sticks out now. I still may mask it off, and spray the portion in the engine compartment black. I don't really care how it looks under the car (as you can tell from the picture of my starter!:D). Here is a pic.....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254867052.jpg I've also found the time to install all of the fiberglas engine "tin". I've read some gripes about it, but it works fine for me. I only had to monkey slightly with the fit. Oh yeah, Jamie, the rear piece of tin is recessed to seal against the back of cylinder #3 as pictured.... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254867178.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254867202.jpg If I get really lucky, I may have a go at putting the bulkhead mount in. It bolts in first, then gets welded. My plan is to locate it and bolt it in, and then maybe holla at Jamie N. to see if he'll lend a hand with his welder. I have about three or four little welding projects I'd like to tackle at once. With that done, I'll be able to bolt it in. It shouldn't take too long to wire everything, but I'm still undecided on the location of the big round oil tank, and the associated plumbing. I may still make the end of October for the light-off!!! More later. |
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