Good you hear from you guys. Hey Otto & Welcome, JTIHOP! I drove the car for such a short time I wasn't really watching the oil gauge that particular day. I did consider some 50 then 150 then 500 then 2000 sandpaper, those "scrubbing bubbles" guys I see on TV and then put it all back together from this point then I had to laugh out loud at myself. At most I was hoping the crank would be pristine smooth, but no such luck. Yes a complete rebuild is in order but won't be needing to buy parts other than another rod set up.
Not thay anyone would care, but yesterday I slipped and fell backwards. Tried to grap something to break my fall and cut my hand on something instead. Got my index and pinky sliced up pretty good. This happens to me, I work with glass all day long, but I cut myself on everything else it seems. Okay, enough pity.
Otto, I'm curious as to what modifications you did on you motor if any. I tend to go with what Wayne says in his engine seminar intro about 3.0 engines are best left original if you want longevity into the 250k area. But curious as to what you did on your fresh build. And by the way have you got it in and running yet? I haven't checked you thread lately... maybe I will here in a moment.

I guess you have your winter project all planned out for you now. Open the case, do a complete rebuild . If that bearing was that bad, I'd guess the metal particles are everywhere throughout the engine. The other bearings are most likely damaged. What I'd be concerned about is what caused it so it won't happen again. Oh, and put the 50 grit paper away!

Well, I actually replaced the entire P/C set for a 9,8:1 Mahle set. This was done to avoid trouble with my old Alusil... (And a few extra HP)
Also:
-replaced the cams for "964" profile cams (Increase HP)
-replaced cylinderbolts for aftermarket ones
-replaced cat for a pre.muffler (Increase HP)
-mounted an aftermarket oil cooler in front to keep it cool on the track.
-Installed oil preassure fed tensioners.
-Heads done at machine shop.

Of course all gaskets, bearings and also the shafts for the rockers was replaced.

So this is not the cheap way to go... But I guess you can use your P/C set, keep the cooling system and cams. I dont know what else you have done to it, but I guess your main concern is the crank and case + rods.

I had a few friends over this morning to take a look at crank. One is a VW mechanic.... actually no, I have to say more a Harley mechanic.... in fact he built the General Lee for the "Easy Rider" movie. Actually he built 2... one for stunts. And another mechanic friend...BMW. They think the crank journal is not that bad. They suggested a quick emery job on the journal and maybe a .5 mm over size cam bearing. BUT.... I just mic'd the journal and keeps coming up 53.02mm which appears to be in the Turbo crank range. I'm going to find out if there's a way to know which it is without removal yet. Do any of you know?

My mind set is if I can logically put a new rod bearing, rebuilt rod, new bolts/nuts and reassemble all I will be good for another 40-45k and THEN total rebuilt. Thing is.... this is not a tired motor at all. It got very low on oil and we are talking only about 8 miles of this happening. From what I see the rod/bearing did get hot but not hot enough to show heat blueing or burn brown anywhere. What I will do next is have my porsche race guy stop buy and give his opinion.
I popped a magnet in and didn't get any metal shavings. I will remove the other pistons and check the crank journals and bearing there, too.

Otto, I do like the idea of 964 cams. And I will place an external oil cooler later in the game. Tell me more about the PRE Muffler CAT. I did notice it in your photos... will I be able to use it with the smog requirments in Calif.?
When it comes down to it .... a total rebuild would be the way to go. I would only need to clean heads. Pressure was the case. Remove grease and oil. I can get only the gaskets I really need. I may get lucky and the crank will just need polish and will stay within tolerances for this crank. What did your crank mic at.... Again, mine is bigger like the Turbo crank size unless I'm doing something wrong.
Where and what did you pay for the 964 cams and do they just set in? Is there a different valve adjustment clearance because of the change? Where and how much for the cat?
... JOSH

The CAT replacement is just muffler. -Not a CAT!. So I doubt you will be able to pass tests in Calif... And it is LOUD!

My crank was just taken out, and cleaned. No measurements made. Then I put it back on new bearings.
I bought all major parts here at Pelican. The pre-muffler was a "Fabspeed" part, and the cams were from "web cams". The cams fit right in, but I needed the later fastener-bolts and shims. (Cheap) The TDC overlap for those are at 1,26mm.
Link to muffler:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_EXHpip_pg7.htm#item31
The cams were not in the online shop, so I made the order through E-mail.

Anyway, -seems like you got a good grip on the situation, and I'm sure the result will be great, either way you choose!

Otto

Going to do the best thing and just do a complete rebuild. I forgot about where the rest of the cam bearings is. (little metal stars floating in the universe of my 3.0L engine). I've got all the labor into it this far.... I may as well tear it all down and rebuild. I concluded there really is no choice to be made but a rebuild. Even if the crank was pristine why put it back together not knowing what else happened to the engine besides this little #5 rod bearing fiasco. And then just hope it will last another measly 40k or more and end up with worse wear and at the same point I am right now. I can do the same work with some more money well invested and I can run it to 225K like Wayne. Besides I have all you guys to prod me along. Well next is to finish the rest of the tear down this week. Stay in touch. Relayswitcher / JOSH

I shouldn't worry to much I have my extra mode of transportation and....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222055177.jpg
.......these guys praying for my engine. LOL.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222055051.jpg
These are my "Three Shady Jews". When I took the photo they had moved under some branches growing further up the wall. See the shade on their shoulders and yes this is the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, Israel.

when you do the rebuild, don't forget to contact henry to have your crank updated with the drilling required so it oil's all areas equally !!
Great thread... keep on posting !
Bob

How is this material related to Engine Rebuilding?

Hey 911 Tweaks. I don't know who Henry is, but can you tell me more. extra oil lube on the crank sounds great and I'll like to know more. Does this extra drilling work for both 2.7 and 3.0 engines. I may build the 2 engines at the same time. Relayswitcher / JOSH

call henry at supertec ... tell him I told you to call him... 760 728 3062 (CA-west coast time zone)

he'll be able to answer any and all of your q's

you can also call Steve @ rennsport in OR 503 244 0990 he also knows his stuff

both of these guys post a lot of very helpful info on pelican and can do it all !!
Good luck and keep us updated on how this goes for you!
Bob

Can someone tell me if I have a turbo crankshaft or a regular SC crankshaft? I measure the spun journal and I keep coming up with 53.02....03mm. What size is this crankshaft??? on this 81-82 3.0L CIS engine?

I will take the other half of this engine apart between now and Sunday night. I'm new to the threads and don't know protocol as to start a new thread for my rebuild process or keep this one going.

regards, Josh

Thanks, yes, I contacted Henry S. at Supertech. I just so happen to live just over the mountains from him..... about 35 miles... what luck, huh? I asked what I needed by email and waiting for a response. Thank you, 911 Tweaks! I hope to gain some good knowledge from his advice.
Regards, Josh / relayswitcher

relayswitcher... henry tells it like it is... he knows these engines like the back of his hand... Henry will give you the truth and options. Be prepared to answer: what do you want the engine to do ? ie stock... modify... since I need to replace this, maybe consider doing that and get more performance out of the engine... etc.
Good luck & enjoy the experience !!
Bob

RelaySwitcher:

53.02 rod journal diameter is about .05 mm OVERsized from 78-81 SC crankshaft. Standard is 52.971-52.990. Turbo cranks are 2mm larger than SC cranks for those years.

Thanks Brian, At present I can only measure the one journal exposed through the #5 barrel hole in the case. My machine shop by phone says most likely that journal has residue of the bearing left on it. I'll know by this weekend what the other journals measure when I get the crank out. Hopefully it's just a polish job. I'll post more photos when that's done. I plan to show the rebuild on this thread or start a new one. Thanks for your interest and stay in touch. R.

Ease up you stodgy curmudgeon.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222535259.jpg
Stodgy=Prim or pompous; stuffy Curmudgeon= ill-tempered, full of resentment and stubborn notions

It's comic relief. You know, humor. Many people use is to ease tension. I know few things that can cause more stress than realizing your Porcshe engine is toast.

+1
Important to keep the spirit up!!

I am coming late to this party, but IMHO...it's a good thing you decided to investigate when you did. By the looks of this bearing, you came pretty close to that rod pushing itself out of the case in what Wayne calls "catastrophic failure" in his writing. I am certainly no expert, but my guess is the crankshaft oil feed hole (may not be the correct technical term) may have become plugged, which in turn caused the bearing to fry, as well as the rod bolts not being torqued to proper specifications. I agree with what was said about "small amounts of metal" being present within the case too. And, if that is fact, then the oil cooler will need some cleaning since some of the smaller fragments may have traveled that way.

Once again, good timing on the tear down...better safe than sorry.

Lastly, you are very lucky to be so close to Henry's shop...I envy you that!

SmileWavy

YUP, i hear you on that one. I feel I did the correct thing in shuttin it down soon after I started hearing the noise. If you haven't read the beginning of this thread, I was thinking it was chain rattle from tension failure. Just happened to have a new Carrera pressure fed tensioner set up on the sheif for a 2.7 I've been meaning to build the last 3years so I quickly placed it on this 3.0 engine. Didn't take away the rattle, so checked the valves, and not problems, so it was open it up time. I have the 4-5-6 top end off and the #5 rod removed as you see in the photo. Fuel injection is now remove and tonight it removing the fan and shroud with generator still attached. Then the 1-2-3 top end removed and then the case split. I may start a new thread so people can follow me with help if I need it.

Follow my "THEORY: If you own a Porsche, you most likely own a truck" thread on 911 Technical Forums. Almost 100 thread in less than 24 hours so far.
Look for Relayswitcher.
Thanks for your interest. Post again, soon. Josh / relayswitcher.