Leaking #8 Bearing Seal

earossi · 05:59 PM

We've just transplanted a 3.2 motor into a 914/6 conversion car. The motor had about 75K miles on it, and to the best of our knowledge was original except for an upper end refresh. I resealed the engine, but obviously could not replace the #8 bearing O-ring without splitting the case. Now that the engine installation is complete and we have fired up the motor, the only leak remaining is a "seeper" from what I am guessing is the nose bearing on the engine. The leak is not bad, since the area below the bearing becomes "wet" after running the motor for about an hour. I did replace the main seals (nose and crank) before the install, and believe that they are fine.

So, short of splitting the case, is there any way to attack the seeper from the nose bearing? Or, is the only way to stop the leak splitting the case and replacing the seal?

rsscotty · 03-11-2015, 09:56 PM

This link will help.......

Successful #8 Bearing Oil Leak Fix

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

We have had reasonable luck with a kit we make for just this issue.
We don't use it but customers who have say that it worked perfect for them.
Call or email me. Each kit is custom made for the specific engine so we will need some measurements. It will be necessary to pull the mounting cradle and pulley to insure your greatest possible success.
Cheers

BartdeBruijn · 03-19-2015, 10:34 AM

Hi out there!

After 18 years and full nut & bolt restoration of my 1969 911T 2.0 after/ during the break inn I run into what seems a #8 bearing oil leak.....(can I run it cold shortly without pulley/cooling to check if it is the #8!?
Engine case was shuffle pinnend line bored , oil mod etc. (this because this car is matching number and should be for life ;-)

Normally I am not for a quick repair however after all these years I want to drive this machine!
I read quit some stories about the " Tom Amon" fix and then ran into your answer Henry. Is this a similar solution? I was thinking myself to construct something with a metal sleeve ands o-ring.

Anyway, all information is more then welcome!

cheers,
Bart
The Netherlands

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

You can run the engine for a short time without the crank pulley. Remove the pulley, clean thoroughly and then start the engine to assess the leak.
I don't know what the "Tom Amon" solution is so I can't comment.
Cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartdeBruijn

Hi out there!

After 18 years and full nut & bolt restoration of my 1969 911T 2.0 after/ during the break inn I run into what seems a #8 bearing oil leak.....(can I run it cold shortly without pulley/cooling to check if it is the #8!?
Engine case was shuffle pinnend line bored , oil mod etc. (this because this car is matching number and should be for life ;-)

Normally I am not for a quick repair however after all these years I want to drive this machine!
I read quit some stories about the " Tom Amon" fix and then ran into your answer Henry. Is this a similar solution? I was thinking myself to construct something with a metal sleeve ands o-ring.

Anyway, all information is more then welcome!

cheers,
Bart
The Netherlands

BartdeBruijn · 03-19-2015, 11:13 PM

Henry,

Thanks for quick reply!

Tom Amon: PORSCHE CUSTOMERS of TOM AMON - Welcome to Mobile Works West!
another example :Successful #8 Bearing Oil Leak Fix
I read a number of stories with a in general happy ending (stopped leaking also after long time)
Big question here is what kind of sealent to use?
Question:
You mentioned that you developed a kit yourself (for customers), Can you give me some info on that?
Is it simular as a sleeve around #8 and sealing it down to the case?
What are the costs and are you willing to ship it to the Netherlands?
Is it better if I will give you a call?

Cheers,
Bart

p.s. Our host doesn't menioning sealing this #8 bearing only oiling the O-ring!? I kept to his very nice book, this is what they call progressive insight ;-)
I hear Sikaflex, epoxy

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

We produce a collar similar to that in the link you provided. The key to success in this endeavor is proper cleaning, a high quality glue (we use LocTite Hysal) and a collar that fits providing a mechanical grip (IE: press fit).
That is why each collar should be made for the specific application.
Our kit consists of a custom fit collar, glue, a long bolt and a sleeve used to install the press fit collar.

EDIT: the cost is $250 and we will ship it anywhere.

BartdeBruijn · 03-23-2015, 07:06 AM

Henry,

I started the car this weekend and checked if it was really #8. Well there is no doubt...unfortunately.
It’s getting out quick even with cold engine.
I only oiled the o-ring during assembly, If I would split the case again would I have a reasonable chance that with the correct sealing and correct size O-ring(what brand O-ring/gasket set should I order?) to solve this problem?

Probably I will go for the quick option first and use your sleeve method. You prefer glue beyond some high quality flexible kit like Dow 730 or sikaflex? My concerns are splitting the case/removing the sleeve after using Loctite Hysol. Will it soften by heat?

Anyway a lot of questions I know, I just try to find the correct (if there is any apart from splitting ;-)
If I understand you well, you had good experience with your #8 sleeve????

Best regards,
Bart

p.s. would you prefer if I give you a call, saves you quit some typing ;-)

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartdeBruijn

Henry,

I started the car this weekend and checked if it was really #8. Well there is no doubt...unfortunately.
It’s getting out quick even with cold engine.
I only oiled the o-ring during assembly, If I would split the case again would I have a reasonable chance that with the correct sealing and correct size O-ring(what brand O-ring/gasket set should I order?) to solve this problem?
We use Wrightwood Racing gaskets and seals. There are only two different o-rings for the application. Early (2.0-2.7) late (3.0 and later). Over the years people have tried using the later (larger) o-ring in earlier engines with some success. There is also an issue of o-ring installation. It is very easy to twist the o-ring during installation. The cure for that is to take a hooked scribe, slide it under the o-ring and slide it around the perimeter of the bearing. This will generally take the twist out of the o-ring. Then for added security apply a light coat of ThreeBond 1211 to the bearing saddle.

Probably I will go for the quick option first and use your sleeve method. You prefer glue beyond some high quality flexible kit like Dow 730 or sikaflex? My concerns are splitting the case/removing the sleeve after using Loctite Hysol. Will it soften by heat?
When you finally get around to splitting the case, you will find that a quick rap on the bearing with a mallet will free the case. At that point you may want to buy a replacement #8 main bearing.

Anyway a lot of questions I know, I just try to find the correct (if there is any apart from splitting ;-)
If I understand you well, you had good experience with your #8 sleeve????
Our experience with this procedure is 100% success. No one has contacted us with complaints about the kit not working and my experience is that Porsche owners will complain about almost anything.
That said, we prefer to just take it apart and do it right.

Best regards,
Bart

p.s. would you prefer if I give you a call, saves you quit some typing ;-)

I have no problem answering your questions via email. I get about 200 email a day and I try to answer every one, so please be patient.

BartdeBruijn · 03-23-2015, 11:35 AM

Hi Henry,

This is mail 201 ;-))
Thanks a lot for all the
info and quick responding!
Please don't feel to be pushed/offended I am just eager to get this piece of industrial heritage finally on the road....

Cheers,
Bart
(from the lowlands)

BartdeBruijn · 03-24-2015, 12:55 PM

Hi Henry,

Would like to order one of these sleeves!
Will use this and drive the car finally. If I might run in oil leakage again I will have a nice DIY job for the winter ... Will split it in the end anyway to do it right ;-)
Will order sealing material from you for sure (if possible). Difficult to get all sealing material in the Netherlands.

Will sent you PM,
Regards,
Bart

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by BartdeBruijn

Hi Henry,

Would like to order one of these sleeves!
Will use this and drive the car finally. If I might run in oil leakage again I will have a nice DIY job for the winter ... Will split it in the end anyway to do it right ;-)
Will order sealing material from you for sure (if possible). Difficult to get all sealing material in the Netherlands.

Will sent you PM,
Regards,
Bart

The best way to communicate with me is through my Supertec email listed below.
Cheers

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

The Kit

earossi · 03-31-2015, 03:37 PM

Henry,

Do you need a unique measurement off each engine to use your collar? Or, do you just need to know which engine has the leak? For instance, I have a 1987 3.2 engine in a 914 that "may" have a #8 leak. We are going to pull the motor to get a better look at the leak. So, for me to purchase your kit, what specifically do you need in the way of measurements?

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by earossi

Henry,

Do you need a unique measurement off each engine to use your collar? Or, do you just need to know which engine has the leak? For instance, I have a 1987 3.2 engine in a 914 that "may" have a #8 leak. We are going to pull the motor to get a better look at the leak. So, for me to purchase your kit, what specifically do you need in the way of measurements?

All OD measurements on the #8 main bearings are pretty close but for this system to have the best chance of success, we machine each repair sleeve to fit a specific bearing.

analogmike · analogmike's Garage

Bump for more recent experiences. My 2.7"RS" engine leaked immediately after rebuild. My race shop smeared some epoxy around the #8 bearing housing but it cracked where it was too thin, and leaks more than I would like. Where you see bare metal, I chipped away with a screwdriver after seeing the crack by pressurizing the crankcase and seeing where the oil seeped out.

I spent a few hours and removed all the epoxy and now want to fix it better.

I understand how the Amon collar works, but not how the supertek ring stays on. My bearing housing is scratched up pretty badly as you can see, and still has some epoxy on it, so it would be tough to get a tight fitting ring on it.

I am thinking of just redoing what the shop did but thicker, though a collar of some type would surely work better at preventing a leak.

Catorce · 05-14-2017, 08:05 PM

This is exactly why I make new cases, but I digress.

I am guessing you want to repair that without splitting the case? I am not seeing a good way to fix that that doesn't involve tons of epoxy. The right way to do the fix if you are absolutely married to that case is to split it, clamp it together, and bore out for a custom oversize front main seal. That is the RIGHT way to do it, but I understand its a PITA.

Jeff Alton · 05-15-2017, 05:14 PM

You mean bore it for a custom #8 bearing? Is that the right way? Where would one source the bearing?

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

You mean bore it for a custom #8 bearing? Is that the right way? Where would one source the bearing?

Just like 1-7 main bearings, the #8 main bearing is available in .25mm oversized.

Jeff Alton · 09:50 PM

Thanks Henry, never have seen that. Good to know. I see it now in PET.

Have you ever had to go this route?