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-   -   Leaks between Cylinders and Heads (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/457406-leaks-between-cylinders-heads.html)

911 tweaks 02-22-2009 04:16 AM

if possible... tiiks forum could greatly benefit from seeing & learning how this particular signal splitter is designed... a lot of creative folks here & it would go a long way to help those following & considering this work.
Just my 2 cents here...
Bob

iamchappy 03-16-2009 02:08 PM

After 600 miles after the rebuild I've pulled the engine to check on the big oil leaks between the heads and cylinders, after removing the shroud it is easy to see leakage is from there. I tested the top row of head stud nuts (Supertec head studs - 79 SC heads - 91 3.3 turbo cylinders) for proper torque of 30lbs. 3 of the 5 i tested took at least 360º and more of rotation before they reached 30lbs the other two were at least 30lbs as the torque wrench clicked upon applying torque to them.

Now should i loosen up all of the nuts in reverse order of torque pattern, wash down the area between the heads and cylinders well with brake cleaner and re-torque and hope for the best.

Or pull it all apart, pull the jugs measure them to see if there equal, lap the heads, reseal and re-ring.

Because of the variance of torque on the few head stud nuts i did test, by re-torquing, what are my odds this could solve the leakage. Will the head to cylinder seal be too compromised by the leakage and blow-by contamination.

Eagledriver 03-16-2009 06:45 PM

First of all, you don't have anything to lose by retorquing the heads and seeing if that works. If that doesn't work you can try other options. I had a leaky 86 Carrera and had a machine shop instal grooves in the cylinders to accept a CE ring like on the 3.0 engines. That seemed to work well. My current 3.0 race motor had some leaks there and I retorqued the heads with good result.

I think the Dilivar 993 studs are the way to go to prevent these problems.

-Andy

iamchappy 03-17-2009 05:53 AM

I think the Supertec Head studs can handle the job, the variance of torque on the nuts tells me the engine builder was doing something wrong as they should of held there torque.
I hate to go through the trouble of cleaning it up retorquing and putting the engine back together, putting it back in the car only to have it start leaking all over again. Doing this is getting old i have been dealing with this for 3 years now and only have 600 miles of driving in the car since then.

If i have the jugs pulled, at least they can be measured to see if there the culprit.

911 tweaks 03-17-2009 06:34 AM

no short cuts possible here... you know what the best & correct action to take is... we all understand that you don't want to pull the engine again, however, my 2 cents is to tear down to long block and double check on everything... think of how fast it will go since you have done this before, right? Sorry for the bummer you are having here...
Bob

Henry Schmidt 03-18-2009 12:33 PM

Hi Chappy
Call me and I'll walk you through my thoughts. There is no need to replace the head studs.
That advice is just silly.
We have delivered well over 200 sets with 0 issues reported to us.

I wouldn't put Delivar studs in anything I build or own, not even a lawn mower.

The material in our studs is used in more high performance studs applications than any stud material industry wide.

Automotive, aerospace and stationary industrial are just some applications where this material is preferred.
I understand the apprehension that Porsche owners have when it comes to after market products but our studs are heavily tested and have been in street and high performance engines for over 7 years. Again with 0 issues reported.

john walker's workshop 03-19-2009 07:39 PM

steve's advice is silly?

Henry Schmidt 03-20-2009 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop (Post 4555439)
steve's advice is silly?

What's the point of this post?
I never said Steve's advise was silly.

Let's review :
David (Chappy) has an engine project that has been plagued with problems. The latest issue is loose cylinder heads. David said his heads leak and when he checked his head torque, he discovered inconsistent head stud torque.
In a response, eagledriver stated "I think the Dilavar 993 studs are the way to go to prevent these problems. "
This in essence suggests that the problem is head studs and that 993 Dilavar stud might cure the problem.
Because the engine already has Supertec head studs I call that advise "silly"
After speaking with David I believe we ascertained the actual problem, misfit of cylinder to heads.

Now, I will agree that opinions vary about head studs but to suggest that a problem was caused by Supertec head studs with no evidence of that, is silly.

Steve likes to call "993 TT Dilavars are the best choice, hands down" and I would respectfully disagree but a plethora of view points is part of the value of this forum.

awharmse 03-22-2009 11:34 AM

I started this so to report back:

Engine going great and NO leaks, oil or otherwise. To recap:

1. Top of cylinders sloped to outside: 0.07 to 0.08 in 9 mm
2. Chamfer all sharp edges as per normal
3. Ensure that there is 0.2-0.3 mm gap between all other surfaces between heads and Cylinder. If not make them!
4. Dilavar probably best but dont mix. I am happy with steel but dilavar probably recommended for magnesium cases and turbos
5. DONT over tourque. Less rather than more especially with steel.

;)

Ron


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