Can I use a 964 manifold on a 993 vram motor engine?

[matty74]

Ok this is my situation

I have a 993 vram motor without the vram manifold or computer. (I can get it but finding computer al that stuff a hassle extra 12lb weight, for marginal gain)

For now I just want a simple efi set up, keep the distributor (not going for an electronic set up).

So could I put a 964 plastic manifold and throttle body on my vram block? what efi could I use? Can I use what the 964's used?

advice appreciated.

cheers

Matt

[e3photo]

Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in. I am just getting started with 993's. It seems do-able to me, due to the fact that 95's were not varioram.

Cheers,
Emerald

[Raceboy]

You can use whatever programmable ECU but you just can't slap 964 ECU there because 964's had old barn-door type AFMs, 993 OTOH have MAF.

Also there's differences in engine itself so calibration wouldn't work either.

If you're going standalone, you can use whatever manifold that fits physically.

[matty74]

So If I use a 964 manifold which should fit, computer wise could I use a megasquirt, what ecu could I use, could I use the existing distributor?

Lets say down track when I re-build I want to replace the 964 manifold and go PMO ITB's I'd like an efi system that would play nice with that.

[goldringlee]

Thanks for the suggestion,

[Raceboy]

Don't know how well MS deals with ITB's and driving 12 plugs but it should be capable of that. Though it requires some fiddling to add all the features, maybe you can buy it already assembled that way too.

I've used VEMS v3.3 on 964's and 993's, it can easily drive either stock dizzys or direct ignition and whatever induction type you have (993 had TPC supercharger on it).
Choice was made because of the price, features and the fact that VEMS can be had basically as a direct replacement of stock ECU connecting it to Motronic 55pin ECU connector.

There are many ECU's around that can easily do what you want and if you just want more power, great driveability and no über-features (telemetry etc) you shouldn't buy 5000usd ECU, there's no point if you won't use the possibilities it offers.

[Bill Verburg]

If you go w/ Motec or other aftermarket EFI, you wouldn't use the oem air meter. You would use MAP sensor, Barometric pressure sensor and intake air temp sensor

While the 964 manifold might work a '95 plastic one certainly will.

If I were in your position I'd contact a pro for this

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

If I were in your position I'd contact a pro for this

No ofense taken, but I am a professional in this area as I install and tune standalone ECU's as a small business.

I assume you meant that he should take the car to a pro to install standalone, correct?

[matty74]

Raceboy,

what after market ecu could I use with vram?

Matt

[Raceboy]

Pretty much any ECU that has a configurable output that can be made dependable on rpm, TPS, MAP and hysteresis (for differential engagement/disengagement).

[Duane V]

I have a 964 plastic intake on my 3.2SS controlled by a Haltech ECU so you should not have a problem on your 3.6.
Pick a quality ECU that has enough outputs and input to control all the accessories you will need.
Most of the manufactures have tech forms for their products. Search those to see if people are having any common problems You can find out a lot about a product by searching those forms.

I will be replacing my Haltech with a Vi-PEC this winter. Both are from Australia. The support from Haltech Australia seem good but Haltech USA has not been very helpful. The quality of support is important because you will have questions even if someone else does your initial tuning.

Good luck

Duane

[matty74]

Will the 964 plastic manifold fit a 993?? My mechanic thinks so just want to be sure before I buy. If I use a Haltech or megasquirt 2 do I use an OEM harness?

or can I get one as a part of the kit?

Matt

[Duane V]

Both use three bolt flanges so it should bolt right up.
Most ECU's come with a flying lead harness. You will have to add the connectors you need to the bare ends. The stock harness most likely won't work as you will be using some difference sensors on the engine and connector to the ECU, although you may be able to use some of the old connectors on the new harness.
You will also need to fab a mount for the TPS.

You really need to plan everything out and decide what your end goal is before you buy a ECU. That will help in your decision on the model you choose.

If you have a tuner near you find out what they recommend. If you have more than one tuner even better.

Duane

[Raceboy]

Why would he need a mount for TPS? Both 964 and 993 has one, it's just 964 non-Tiptronic engines have simple idle/WOT switch, not potetiometer type, but others have it and you can fit an Opel Bosch TPS on 964 intake with ease.

All of the other sensors should work on any standalone.

If you have stock engine harness that is in good condition, you might consider ECUs that plug right into the stock Motronic connector. I've made and installed few VEMS v3.3 Porsche PnP ECU's, they work excellent with Porsches.

[matty74]

could i use megasuirt II with twin plug? Also with megasquirt do I still need an oem harness or can I get one from megasquirt?


I don't know which way to go I have Vram manifold, but no computer or harness, I also have a 964 plastic intake again no computer or harness either way it's looking like mega bucks.

[Raceboy]

Why do you want to use Megasquirt on 3.6 twin-plug? Megasquirt can cope with it but not without major twiggling and adding components etc. If you're not familiar with ECU's, it's better to have someone else do the installation and tuning, otherwise you don't get your car driving in near future...

If you don't have any harness or ECu, I suggest you to use VarioRam intake and give your car to ECU installer/tuner In Australia you have nuch of good ECU makers and support is right there.. Link ECU (G4 for example) comes to mind with a very good price/features combo.

[Steve W]

If you install the full 964 intake system, Motronic wiring harness, and 964 DME, you'll have no problem running the motor like a non-vram 3.6. The bottom ends are both very much the same between a 964 and 993, which is why the 964s and 94-95 993s make basically the same amount of power. The benefits are factory drivability and reliability, along with active knock sensor protection. You'll also spend a lot less on outside tuning of an aftermarket ECU which can run quite a bit.

However depending on how you use your car, the mid-range torque gain from a v-RAM manifold is actually quite substantial. The gains are between 3200 rpm to about 4400 rpm. I've helped a few non-vram 993 owners retrofit the Vram system onto their motor and it was very noticeable to them. We've basically taken their U.S. OBD1 DME and converted it to full ROW European specification by changing the chip to the ones from the European VRAM cars, best of both worlds. Steinel's Auto Works retrofitted a VRAM intake on a 3.8 964, and using a rpm controller to activate the manifold, and along with some chip tuning, creates a peak torque gain of around 30 ft-lbs by 3400 rpm and is flat from there on up. Have you seen the Pelican classifieds today? I though I saw a vram manifold for sale there.

[matty74]

Thanks for the advice Steve, I do have the vram manifold just no harness wjich is why I was considering going for a 964 plastic intake and an after market efi system.

Finding a harness for a row 95 ecu is proving difficult Jim who is selling his vram system wants to sell it complete with manifold otherwise I would have bought it.

[matty74]

Has anyone used these guys if so what are they like??

55 pin harness

[Steve W]

There harness between a US and ROW 94-95 993 are essentially the same. There is no difference between 94-95 ROW and US ECU. Can you find a 95 U.S. harness a DME?