Valve train, noise...now what. Sorry....

[jchris]

Hey guys, I know this has been beat to death lately, but can I ask where to go from here.

The engine: 1983 3.0L stock. (Excepting carrera chain tensioners and ssi exchangers, small orifice cam oil line restrictors). 104k mi. Replaced lower head studs, new rings, sunnen-ed the alusils, new chain ramps, sealed the triangle of death, and tightened up the CIS in 2012. It uses about 1/2 quart of oil per 1000 mi. The spark plugs are not oily, and I do not see smoke on accel or decel.

Ok, I have been kind of chasing a loud valve on the passenger side for a bit. I have this week off work and decided to conquer it finally. I used the advise of flatpac6 and others and used my dial indicator on them. I found I was not as sloppy as I thought, though I did tighten them to show .0035-.004 in. I did that this morning. It is still ticking!

Having read on this subject on this forum I realize I should be looking for: a broken spring, bad rocker, or worn valve guide.

I will be trying the back side method tomorrow morning, while I am doing this, how can I inspect for other culprits?

Thanks,

[evan9eleven]

I guess you have seen my clackety clackety post, I am chasing a similar issue. Please post pics if you can, I'll hopefully be taking my valve covers off in a few weeks and it would really help to see what you uncover. Other then that, good luck!

[jchris]

It's funny ( ish ) that you just posted that thread! I've been resisting the urge to post, wanting to fix it first. Alas I gave in. I'll be posting what I find.

[jchris]

Even9eleven, having retread my post I want to make sure I didn't sound like an xSS.
I found It interesting that we are both having similar problems simultaneously! I also tend to be stubborn about posting, not wanting to bother the board with the "same old stuff". Any way I'm back to the salt mine this morning, I will post what I find!

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by jchris

Even9eleven, having retread my post I want to make sure I didn't sound like an xSS.
I found It interesting that we are both having similar problems simultaneously! I also tend to be stubborn about posting, not wanting to bother the board with the "same old stuff". Any way I'm back to the salt mine this morning, I will post what I find!

Its all good

After all, the board is about helping others. Eventually I'll learn enough to contribute more then I ask about, and such is the beautiful Pelican cycle of life! Good luck with your car!

[jchris]

Well I just completed the back side method of adjusting the valves. The .003 in. blade will not go under any rocker pad, the .025 in. blade will slide in pretty easily. Only one valve needed tightening, #4 intake. Can I pose these questions?

Is it safe to say they are adjusted as good as can be?

I tried by hand to test each rocker for play, I could not detect any other than along the rocker shaft which I measured to be .009-.010 in. for all.

Is there anything more I should do to eliminate the rockers as the problem?

I tried with the butt end of my 1/4 in. socket wrench to push each valve spring in. I got no movement with that.

Was that a valid test for the springs?

I am going to button it back up soon and listen again with my newly purchased stethoscope. I guess I'll check the drain plugs next for metal bits.

I really wanted to find one that was way out of adjustment.

Thanks for any input!

[Flat6pac]

Did you check the rocker shafts for being on location?
Bruce

[jchris]

Bruce, I looked at them and tried snugging the 5mm bolt. They were all tight. Can I ask, what do you mean by on location?

[Flat6pac]

If you look at the carrier, the bosses that hold the rocker shaft has one side wide and one side narrower. You want the rocker shaft at or just above surface on the narrow side.
In the picture, top right you can see the head of the rocker shaft on location
on the left bottom you can see the head just above flush as the narrow side changes from top to bottom.
Now, I have had bad rockers before and it sounds like piston slap, so much as I bought new P&Cs for the engine but still the slap was there from worn rockers.
Bruce

[jchris]

Bruce, thanks for the pic! I just verified that they are all in that position. As far I know the folks in Stuttgart were the last ones to place those.

I just checked the chain tensioner on that side (I peeked at the clack clack thread), it is hard as a rock and no debris in the camchain cover box.


I don't know what else to do right now. I guess I will button it up and see if some magic happened. Maybe I'll make a video of it. Maybe I'll start planning my top end build for the winter.

I am most interested in knowing weather I have a time bomb and need to park it.

[jchris]

Well, I double checked everything again, used the back side method on the valves and the sound remains.

And I thought I would be moving on to suspension soon.

Top end here we come.

[DSPTurtle]

Take a look at the fan housing and see if any of the blades are scratching the surface...

[jchris]

Interesting thought, I will.

Thanks!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by jchris

Well, I double checked everything again, used the back side method on the valves and the sound remains.

And I thought I would be moving on to suspension soon.

Top end here we come.

It could be a sticky valve. That means the valve takes a moment longer to move once the cam turns to close it casing a knocking sounds.

A long time ago "we" used to add some diesel to the fuel to un stick VW valves. It didn't always work though.
Maybe your valve springs are worn. They can look fine but their strength could be down a bit or your valve guides are worn.

I'd try replacing the springs before taking the head off. It's possible to do it with the engine in the car but that's not ideal.

[jchris]

Thanks for the idea of changing the springs. I have isolated the loudest sound to #6. Here is a shot of the sump magnet. There are fine shavings on it. I don't think I have had that before. I took a video of it as well. I will try to get that uploaded soon.

[jchris]

Here is a video of the sound this after noon. It doesn't really get loud till you get it right off idle.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JCa69d66pV0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Enjoy!

I can't find the popcorn eating smiley face......sorry.

[911pcars]

It will help to ID the location of the noise. Does it make more noise under load or at all times? Have you tried to isolate rod bearing knocking? Tried using a longish hose, one end to ear, the other end to various areas of the engine?

The noise can be from numerous areas. I'm afraid you'll just slowly end up disassembling the engine w/o clues as to the source, but that's one way to do it.

Sherwood

[Flat6pac]

Chris, in order for the metal to get to the magnet, it has to get by the screen. You need to pull the whole sump plate and see if there is more there.
I PM you.
Bruce

[jchris]

SC, FWIW I Reyes a can if seafoam hoping there would be some magic. 10-20 miles on that. No luck yet, but here's to hoping.

Thanks Sherwin, I just purchased a stethoscope and have been poking around with it. So far the loudest is from touching the #6 intake runner.

[RedCoupe]

Flat6pac, wasn't 1983 the year that the sump plate was eliminated in the SC? If so, the drain bolt is outside of the scavenge pump pickup screen, and hopefully not too much FOD has gone through the scavenge pump.