Audi/VW coil packs question

[billjam]

I am planning to use Audi/VW coil packs in a 3.6 964 engine that will most likely end up in a mid-80s Carrera.
These coil packs are about 1" longer than the standard 964 Beru plug connector.

I know that removing my plug leads (Clewett) on my 930 is a very tight fit between engine and body so I am concerned that I might end up with insufficient clearance to remove each coil pack, especially on the top side plugs. Don't want to drop an engine just to get at plugs

Can someone using these coil packs confirm that they can be removed and installed OK.

[MBEngineering]

HI billjam
is this what you are looking for?? the red col packs from Audi are fitted on the R/H side, the back fitted OK ,



coil pack No' 06C 905 115 F

regards mike

[billjam]

Thanks Mike. Perfect. They are the ones.
Not having a coil pack unit to test fitment, I was getting nervous about being able to get them in and out. Didn't want to order 12 of them and then find the problem.
I'd be interested to hear how you have set them up (Megasquirt?) and where you got connectors from.
How come this engine has ignition leads as well? Lower plugs run off distributor?

[MBEngineering]

HI Bill
the photo was for you from a car in the work shop which is a 2.8 RSR copy engine and is twin plug, I just puled the leads off to check the fitment for you as I have a box full of the Audi/VW plug cap coils to try .

regards mike

[930gt-40r]

Does the boot reach the plug alright? how about retaining them in there? sorry to hijack, but I really want to try this some time.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by 930gt-40r

Does the boot reach the plug alright? how about retaining them in there? sorry to hijack, but I really want to try this some time.

Not quite sure what you mean about boot meeting plug, but the coil pack does fit all the way into the plug recess and fits firmly on the plug.
I am planning to fit these coil packs to a 964 engine that I am currently building. Yesterday, I took a head/cam box/rocker cover assembly to my local Audi parts shop to test fit. They fit the engine OK, but it the extra length of the coil pack gave me concerns about getting them in and out with the engine in the car.



The coil packs fit the top plugs just fine with the ribbed section of the coil pack tight in the rocker cover holes.
However at the bottom plugs, the packs were about 8mm too long to fit snugly in the rocker covers so I will make up a short extension tube and push it into the covers.
I was thinking about making up a retaining clip for the lower units, but if I press in an extension tube, I can make the tube ID so that the coil pack is a very tight fit and probably avoid the need to use a retainer.
Keep in mind that I am working with 964 rocker covers which are a different shape to 911 covers.

[175K911]

Why would you want to use an Audi coil pack. They've been recalled more times than anything I've ever owned. Latest recall is just this past month. Seems once a year Audi has to recall them on one of their engines. I'd had two separate failures between '06 and '07 and finally called it quits. Audi was too cheap to replace all the coil packs when one failed, would replace just the bad one. Sure enough just a few months later another would fail, and the car would go into limp mode. Ask any Audi enthusiast what they think of Audi's coil packs, then duck.

[Mark Henry]

I swapped out the coil packs on the wife's 99 passat (rebadged audi A4) 20vT for Hitachi units.

[911quest]

The only thing that I can see as an issue is vibration these coils would often break in the middle where the plug wire end meets he top of the coil pack. Just a thought.

[billjam]

Thanks for the feedback on the Audi coils guys. I had heard of some problems with these but was under the impression that later ones were OK.
I'll look into this a bit more before I commit.

I have also been looking at Toyota coil packs as well but price is more than double Audi/VW.
Gets pricey when you need 12!

Mark, do you have a part number for the Hitachi units? Do they use the same connector?

[Mark Henry]

I've seen them mounted on 911's, I forget the thread, but they are the bolt on type. Bit of fab work involved to mount them. I'd have to find the numbers if you did need them. If in a rush goggle "passat world " look what they do on the 1.8/2.0T.
Look at the Kawasaki bike units

I can't comment on the type in the pic, just issues are known with some VW/Audi coils.

[billjam]

I just found this site which has info on recalled Audi coil packs
There are a few others but this one seems to cover it well. Seems like the problem affects the 1.8 engine more than others. The same coil pack is used in a wide variety of Audi and VW cars.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

I've seen them mounted on 911's, I forget the thread, but they are the bolt on type. Bit of fab work involved to mount them. I'd have to find the numbers if you did need them. If in a rush goggle "passat world " look what they do on the 1.8/2.0T.
Look at the Kawasaki bike units

I can't comment on the type in the pic, just issues are known with some VW/Audi coils.

Mark,
I read some info on Kawasaki coil packs in this thread a few days ago. It was never confirmed by any posters that the Kawasaki units could be used due to their requirement for 80V. The thread petered out without any confirmation one way or the other.

I would love to get some feedback from someone using coil packs - any kind!
Part numbers and pics would be interesting.

[Mark Henry]

I'd like the same info...I'm watching the same thread

[911st]

Anyone know what the voltage output of these are compaired to the factory's CD system?

[175K911]

Originally Posted by billjam

I just found this site which has info on recalled Audi coil packs
There are a few others but this one seems to cover it well. Seems like the problem affects the 1.8 engine more than others. The same coil pack is used in a wide variety of Audi and VW cars.

That's an old recall. There's another one so recent that not all dealers have the part yet. Coil packs and lower control arm bushings seem to be something Audi just can't get right. The last 3 Audis I owned needed lower control arms replace by 50K miles.

http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/owners/main/recalls_campaigns/ignition_coil/affected_vehicles.html#source=http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/owners/main/recalls_campaigns/ignition_coil.html&container=page

[Mark Henry]

VW's 2001-2007 recalled, audi A4 2001-2003 recalled. All B5 engines 97-2006 their coils are junk. I bet there's more models.

Personally, I think I'll just use GM coil packs, coil on plug is over-rated. You do still have to run the wires....they are still seen...
GM coil packs are proven, high power and plentiful. New they are like $45 each and does 2 plugs each.

I have GM coils on my 4 cylinder SDS fuel injection system with crankfire, they work flawlessly.

[Jeff Alton]

I use the MSD version of the GM two pole coil packs, work great!

Cheers

[911st]

Originally Posted by 911st

Anyone know what the voltage output of these are compared to the factory's CD system?

Wasted spark and pencil coils are sexy but I suspect most do not have the intensity of spark as the stock system.

Anyone have any numbers on the stock or alternative systems?

Fortunately most going to them are going to a twin spark set up so the lower output may not be as much an issue.

It is hard to beat a twin spark distributor w stock CD or better yet, twin MSD's. Especially on a boosted motor.

I could be off on this.

[Mark Henry]

I'd look at what Porsche is using now.

I've have been shocked hundreds of times with Bosch blue coils and few goods ones with /6's...I don't mess around with my GM units, I've tested them and I know better.
The owners of SDS run GM coils in their boosted planes, their shop is at one of the Calgary airports. They have a lot of faith in them.
I've got a DYI on how to hook them to MS as well.

I won't deny that a twin plug is sexy, but there are more modern systems. They just don't say Porsche on them.