Phase II...Information overload. What to replace what to re-use?

[rgdtoo]

Like the title says, I am suffering mass information overload.

Like most other (my guess) DIY'ers working on their Porsche engine for the first time I read and re-read Wayne's rebuild book, read thru my Porsche service manual, 101 projects book, and a few other performance upgrade books etc coming to the conclusion; if I take my time, stay organized, ask questions, keep everything clean, ask more questions etc I can do the rebuild myself. I still feel that way, that isn't the problem.

Before I started reading all the posts everything seemed cut and dry. Clean this, replace that, check tolerances here and there, don't forget to ..... before you put that together blablabla...

The problem is, after reading thread after thread I feel inundated with to many ideas. And after reading so many high performance upgrade threads I know I will want to upgrade my engine somewhere down the line.

What I am thinking and my question(s). What I want to do is rebuild the case so it is ready for a top end overhaul without re-opening it later. As in new cams, duel spark plug heads etc for max performance. Can that be done without costing me an arm and a leg?

Other than the obvious, rod bolts, main bearings, seals, what else is needed to ready the case for that upgrade.

For reference my tear down with pictures is in the thread titled, "85 Carrera ~ Over revved engine".

Thanks,

Bob

[Henry Schmidt]

Hi Bob
If I understand your question correctly, you are asking "what is the minimum you should do to build a quality bottom end capable of handling future upgrades".
Here what I would do:
New main bearings
New rods bearing
Oil pump upgrade
Cross drill crank
upgrade rods : Arp bolts at a minimum
Better rods if future up grades require over 7000 rpm
Quality heads studs
Shuffle pins if 7400 rpm is expected
Knife edge the crank if sustained high RPMs are expecteds
Racing timing chains.
Cheers

[dtw]

Henry - can you expand on 'racing timing chains'?

I'd add - new intermediate shaft chain sprockets

[Henry Schmidt]

Some parts suppliers are offering an upgraded version of the IWIS chains.
Sprockets are replaced on an "as needed" basis.
I have seen sprockets in an engine with 260K miles in perfect condition.
Not all of course but that's why some experience is required to assess condition.

[safe]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Hi Bob
Better rods if future up grades require over 7000 rpm
Cheers

Which rods do you recommend for 7300-7500 in a 3.2?

[Henry Schmidt]

In no particular order:
RR rods from LN
Pankl
Pauter
Despite resent quality control issues, I still like Carrillo

EDIT: I forgot one very important option, a stock 3.0 factory rod w/ ARP rod bolts on a modified crank will work to 8000+ all day long.

[robmog]

without anything useful to add i think this is a great question!

[rgdtoo]

Henry, yes that was exactly what my question was and thank you for your input.

Now from your input and others I am getting much closer to an actual game plan for my build.

Again thank you very much.

Bob

[Mahler9th]

Looks like you are getting some useful help here. Be aware that there are many, many experts here in NorCal. Most of them don't spend any time on these forums. PCA membership is one way to get hooked in to the network. There are probably even some folks that have rebuilt their own engines and might be willing to share their experiences. I know at least one of my former driving students that now races has done his own engine building, and I am sure he has learned quite a bit.

- Mike
(Has Crower rods)

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Mahler9th

Looks like you are getting some useful help here. Be aware that there are many, many experts here in NorCal. Most of them don't spend any time on these forums. PCA membership is one way to get hooked in to the network. There are probably even some folks that have rebuilt their own engines and might be willing to share their experiences. I know at least one of my former driving students that now races has done his own engine building, and I am sure he has learned quite a bit.

- Mike
(Has Crower rods)

Interesting post::
Of course there are "experts" everywhere. Why would it matter if there are many "experts" anywhere if they are not offering help to those who ask for it.

Just wondering

[Mahler9th]

My point is to encourage my neighbor (we live in the same town) to get input from a variety of resources, not just folks on the internet. There are some great resources here, but there are more that aren't.

Plus, there are perhaps folks that will share their experiences with similar projects that aren't on line.

I have seen a lot of great information shared in forums like this. But I have seen some awful stuff as well. And a lot in between.

I am lucky to have access to one of the premier engine builders in the area. He spends no time on the internet. Nor does Jerry Woods. Nor I would guess does Bruce Anderson. Or Craig Watkins. I think Peter Smith is online a lot, but I'd guess he isn't in these forums. There are others as well.

I have always found these folks willing to answer my call and/or e-mail. If there are times when they have been unwilling, that is not consistent with my experience from the past 23 years.

When I started with Porsches, there was no internet, so I relied on my PCA membership to connect me with experts. I still do.

[Henry Schmidt]

Just so I understand you correctly:
You think Jerry Woods, Bruce Anderson, Craig Watkins and Peter Smith would walk a DIY guy through a 911 engine rebuild?
And if they did, it would be better information than that offered on this forum?
Interesting point of view.
I have my doubts on both counts.

[Mahler9th]

I don't think that is what I said or implied.

Jerry and Bruce offer an educational opportunity related to this thread. They charage money for this.

Peter runs the Tech program for PCA, and that relates to this thread. Their efforts are as volunteers.

Craig works for the Flying Lizards racing team.

[Eagledriver]

Bruce has answered questions for me without charge. More often Ted Robinson has had good advice for me. The best part is that they don't spend alot of time telling me how smart they are and how nobody else's advice is a good as theirs!

-Andy

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Eagledriver

......edit.....The best part is that they don't spend alot of time telling me how smart they are and how nobody else's advice is a good as theirs!

-Andy

Wow Andy, if this is directed at me (with my ego, it's always about me ) I'm sorry you feel that way. However, I wonder if you are expressing a general resentment to authority and unresolved angst from childhood father issues is really at the root of this comment.
Either way, you are entertaining.
Cheers

[Eagledriver]

I'm glad you saw the humor in my remarks. All good humor has a basis in truth, but I enjoy your posts as well.

-Andy

[rgdtoo]

Wow, not entirely sure how to respond to the latest posts… but I don’t want to ignore them either.

Yes it goes without saying having a local contact with good experience would be helpful. Likewise I understand there are several excellent Porsche (professional and DIY) mechanics here in the Bay Area.

Mike, please don’t misunderstand I do appreciate your input very much. And in fact I look forward to and plan on meeting local builders etc, as I get more involved. (Through machine shop, locals like yourself etc…)

That said, I don’t think you could ask for better starting point than this forum and Wayne’s 911-rebuild book. To date I have found this forum incredibly helpful via persons like Henry Schmidt, Walt Fricke, Steve Weiner and others willing to chime in with their knowledge.

Like any situation it is my job to inform myself enough to weed out the crap, keep the good stuff, and decide how I want to use it.

So anyway...

[DYB]

To those people who are in the game like henry, I am very grateful that they are on the internet. To all the other pros who are not...I wish they were because it would enrich the forum more.

Free advice is exactly that. You do what you like with it. To all those who provide it, thankyou for sharing your knowledge.

This forum is a fantastic place to learn and get advice. The free advice from professionals in part is why this forum, is such a fantastic site for 911 lovers all over the world.

There are always other sources of info and if you want to go there and pay....go for it.

[Mahler9th]

Well...

I too am grateful that experts share their hard-earned knowledge and experience on the internet. But the internet is not the only way to get this type of information, which was my point. And often there are alternative approaches that aren't reflected here.

Many of the cars folks talk about in these forums have been around a long time. New methods, ideas, products come out all of the time, but in many cases, methods, ideas and products that have been around for decades are still as good or better.

The relationship between methods, ideas and approaches and $$$ is important for many folks, and that is one of the areas where I encourage people to collect info from a broad base.

I have never paid for advice from any of the experts I mentioned in my earlier post.

rgdtoo, if you want sometime to meet, we can hit a starbucks. Happy to learn about your project/car, and share what I am up to with mine.

I live in central Fremont area.

My project for the day is to lower car 5/16 and raise the transmission accordingly. May also visit with my friend and our fellow neighbor Mark (who has actually met Henry). Mark is building a 3.2 in Mission area as we speak... and also has some other projects.

Cheers.

[rgdtoo]

Mike....

Great, thanks for the offer, PM sent.