Gathering Information for my re-build

[Daviboy]

As some of you will know I recently blew #2 piston through the housing, thus speeding up my planned re-build by some months. Whilst I don't have the funds right now to start the project I thought I would start picking brains.
OK for those that don't know my car is an 82 Euro SC with a completely stock motor with ~150,000 miles to date. Only real mod is a set of custom made headers.
I do not nor do I intend to track the car it will be 100% street driving. I definitely want to switch from CIS to carbs and having read a fair amount on the forum have decided on PMO's however I will need some advise as to size etc.
I also want to try and squeeze the most horsepower out at a reasonable cost so possibly looking to upgrade cams. Will definitely be changed P & C's and again looking for advice on optimum with hotter cams and carbs.
I have used the search button but am mostly confused by the amount of information I have read so far.
As this is a very personal subject on upgrading I appreciate everyone has a differing opinion on whats required.
Again I will reiterate that I want the max bang for the mid budget buck, including hotter cams and carbs.
So with that said have at her guys but don't go off on tangents.

Many thanks in advance

[kenikh]

If P/Cs, cams and carbs are on the table, bump compression to 9.5:1, get some Mod-S cams and be done with it. I think your motor has big port heads, so this should result in a motor taht really wakes up. Consider adding ARP rod bolts, too, as they can be added (albeit with some skinned knuckles) without splitting the case.

[lindy 911]

You'll need to split the case with a broken barrel and piston; too much junk floating around in the case. Here's a start:

1. Main bearing set
2. Rod bearing set
3. Raceware rod bolts
4. Full bottom end gasket set
5. Full top end gasket set
6. 98 mm barrels and pistons (I used Mahle and JE)
7. Plan on new exhaust valves, all new guides and seals for the heads, springs and retainers
8. Re-size and re-bush rods
9. 46 mm PMO (used Webers can be made to work well also)
10. GE 60 cams streetable with an edge towards hot rod. Way fun!
11. Waynes book!

You'll be amazed at what this motor will do. Carbs really like compression and compression is not your friend unless you go twin plug. I did, went the dizzy rout, and am glad I did; 10.5:1 JE.

Lindy

[efhughes3]

Something like Aasco valve springs and Ti retainers when you do the heads would help to bullet proof it, for not a lot more money. You'll need to replace them anyway, as noted.

I'd also have a machinist check your case for line bore, check/polish your crank. You'll also want to resurface your rockers. New timing chains, ramps and possibly new sprockets too. With these and the things noted by the guys above, which seem to be spot on to me, will pretty much expire an "upper mid-range" budget. You're going to spend a fair chunk on this, so make it count and not cut corners. There will probably be some stuff that you end up replacing as it may be suspect with this age and 150K miles on the clock. Shoot, you may end up spending another $300 on just hardware and powdercoating/aesthetics to make it look as good as it will run.

[Eagledriver]

I like what Lindy said except for the cam choice. If it were a pure race car then the GE-60 would be fine. For this car I'd second the "mod-s" choice. This is also called a GE-40.

-Andy

[Daviboy]

I like the thinking so far and had thought of the twin plug route as well. I dont really know whats involved to do this though apart from having the case bored, could I use the eisting dizzy with a new cap or is it a whole new one? I have an MSD blaster coil already which I think is good enough however I would obviously have to upgrade to an MSD or similar CDI correct? Also which is better EFI or MFI style carbs, I know EFI would be more bucks but thats all I know

[Flieger]

MFI style carbs? MFI is not carburetors. It is a much better induction system, mechanical fuel injection.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by kenikh

Consider adding ARP rod bolts, too, as they can be added (albeit with some skinned knuckles) without splitting the case.

How will you properly torque them if you're not splitting the case???
Can you use the stretch gauge or micrometer???
Or do you just use a torque wrench??

[Daviboy]

Fleiger excuse my ignorance but the reason I asked MFI or EFI is that I looked at the PMO product page and saw that they have EFI and MFI throttle bodies PMO High Performance Porsche 911 Carburetion
Maybe I need to find out some more but from what I can see both look very similar in appearance? I am willing to listen to all advise here just that the world of carbs is new to me since the last set I had were on a Triumph Bonneville....

[Daviboy]

Another quick question can my existing SC cams be re-ground to S spec?

[Carrerax]

Originally Posted by Daviboy

Another quick question can my existing SC cams be re-ground to S spec?

Im also doing a 3.2ss build similar to what you are talking about. Im going with Mod S cams (DC 40) by Camgrinder (here on Pelican). You cant grind SC cams to Mod S. you will need new billets and that will cost a bit more. He can grind similar profiles from your SC just not quote as agressive. Im sure he will chime in here. His work is rated as top notch!....no affiliation.

[lindy 911]

I had some comments about the GE-60 cams during my build that were similar to the one above but I find the power from my combination very civilized. Pulls from a stop easily and does not require slipping the clutch and revving the motor to get it going any more than stock. What these cams do is come on like a nitrous charge at 4500 rpm; I'm talking get after it! This motor loves to rev and definitely has two personalities.

It idles at 900 rpm and runs just like a stocker to about 3500. It's second personality comes in about now and pulls seriously hard to about 7500 by the seat of my pants. I haven't had a chance to get it on the dyno yet but that's coming soon. Second gear tire spin is normal.

I don't drive it daily just on weekend mornings when the weather is nice. It's my four wheeled motorcycle and fits the bill perfectly. For what I wanted I'd be hard pressed to make it any better.

Have fun with the build!

Lindy

[kenikh]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

How will you properly torque them if you're not splitting the case???
Can you use the stretch gauge or micrometer???
Or do you just use a torque wrench??

First, I missed the detail about the internal carnage on the motor - it will indeed have to come apart.

As far as adding ARP bolts w/o splitting the case, it has been documented numerous times on this site. A search will turn up the detailed process, but IIRC, you simply use the torque method, where you cinch the bolts to specific torque value, back them off a specific amount, then retorque them to a specific value again. Apparently works fine.

[Flieger]

I did not know PMO made throttle bodies for MFI setups. I do not really see the point, unless you bought an individual MFI pump used and need the rest of the system for a car that did not originally have it.

[Daviboy]

So I have pretty much decided to go with lindy 911's suggestions. I have made up a parts list and so far am at $3795 without PMO's or new P & C's, this is going to be expensive me thinks. Anyway I am going to save and collect the parts over this winter here so no biggy. Just a question if I am going to go with increasing compression if my original crank looks good will it be able to handle the extra horses. Please remember I am new to engine rebuilding!

[efhughes3]

I spent about $9K in machining, parts, some powder coating and shipping with no P's and C's a couple of years ago. That included stuff like new fuel lines, alternator, etc, but once you get into it, you need to make the decision on whether you go "cheap" and reuse stuff, or bite the bullet and go new or R&R your goodies. This is not for the meek.

[kenikh]

Your crank will take more power than you could ever throw at it.

[Daviboy]

Ok so now I have had to re-think this rebuild due to cost. My CIS is in perfect working order so with this in mind and having read some info on squeezing more power from the motor with the CIS I think I will go that route.
The car is only for street use after all so if I can get 220-230 hp on a fresh rebuild I will be more than happy.

So from what I understand I can have my SC cams reground to 964 spec assuming original cams are ok!

I will get the new P & C's and am thinking 95mm JE 10.5:1 CR (Euro car so now have 9.8:1 CR pistons).

Could I go with nikasil cylinders with the JE psitons?

Will 93 octane fuel be suitable for this set up?

[kenikh]

9.5:1 is max CR on single plugs and 93 octane. You would find that those Euro pistons are lower in CR than book value since CR was specced at zero deck height. At 1mm, they are 9.5:1.

[Daviboy]

kenikh
Soooo question if I just regrind the cams to 964 spec will I get additional HP?
Or regrind cams, go 10.5:1 and twin plug it? But then what octane fuel would be optimum.

So anyone with CIS upgrade experience tell me whats the best bang for the buck.
I really thought I was getting a handle on this but now I am just as confused as when I started out