2.7 CIS Engine Rebuild
 

Good Morning.

I am attempting to re-build my 1974 2.7 CIS engine (no car) fingers X, and I have so many questions... that the book by Dempsey doesn't go over, but I will keep it short.

I want to convert the CIS to Carbs but I have read in that the pistons are designed/shaped for CIS. Will I have to change the pistons? I know I will have to get my distributor re-curved and a low pressured fuel pump for this build. This there anything else I should be aware of?

Secondly, The stock compression is 8:1, I was thinking of putting JE pistons with a compression of 9:5 as a replacement. Can I just substitute those and not have to worry about changing out my heads and cams?

Thanks,
Cam

Started Last Night, Super Excited :D
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You will want to go with a more aggressive cam to take advantage of the higher CR and the improved inlet flow from the carbs. The CIS cams do not have enough lift.

A set of E or S cams, depending on the type of driving you plan to do, will make a world of difference.

Subscribed- I'm doing the exact same thing with my '76 "s" engine- I have Zenith carbs coming (I'd love to go with PMOs or Webers, but am on a tight budget)... I just closed up my cases (case savers, new mains, etc) and just got my heads back from Rothsport (beautiful work, Jeff gave me a funny look when I suggested I might stick with CIS!)

I had also purchased a used nicasil P&C set (thanks Tom!) but I'm leaning towards seeing if I can pick up the JE set as you suggested...

Curt

Just completed the first step :D

Now just need to purchase some JE Pistons for the next step. Any deals out there?

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Wow! Looks like you've gotten quite a bit done. Hope you can detail some the work completed already.

Have you done anything inside the case? And how'd you get get it so clean?

I got really lucky with this engine. The internals were absolutely perfect. I think what happen was that the oil cooler just lost its pressure and just stared spewing oil everywhere. All the major upgrades where done, casesavers, oil pressure relief bypass, the baffling was already cut, etc...

My cousin has a tranny shop with 2 parts washers and a solvent tank, I was probably there for at least for 12hrs. Everything got washed by hand and thrown into the parts washer, PS those things are amazing saved me a lot of time. The case haves were the worst and I ended up washing them 4 times in the parts washer and solvent washed 3 times. Everything else got washed twice.

I like that beautiful orange fan with black center and black housing. The rest of it is great. I'd suggest the E cams for every day tractability and mileage; the S cams for more aggressive RPM and lower mileage but with smile from the wailing engine until you go on a long road trip. It's called the trade-off for a reason--Zioo

Just finished with the second section of the re-build. I have a new found dislike for "C" clips. I took a few shots to the chest and even had one shoot across the garage and land in a spider's web.

The pistons are JE 90mm 9.5 CR and they fit pretty well. Now it's going to be a couple weeks for the machining of the heads and c-shafts. Suggestions on where I should send my parts?
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I am sticking the engine in my '66 912, should be a fun lil ride.
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sigh....
why does machine work take so long; doesn't go well with my A.D.D.


So in the meantime I installed my engine air baffles. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288147184.jpg
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Got the machine work back today !!!!!!

Started on the pre-assemble...

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me being excited !!!
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pre-gaming what the finished product would semi look like
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Does anybody build 1974 2.7's to concours level any more? If they do so, do they start with a restoration and then move on to concours? Given that the advice is to stay away from 74-77 Porsche motors and rebuilds, how many of these tens of thousands of cars with magnesium cases and Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection are left on the planet in their undisturbed originality? Zioo

Does anyone have the part # for the 1974 CIS microswitch? I've put the word microswitch into the Pelican search engine and have come up negative. Did Pelican forget to add the english word to their part number search on this one? Thank you -- Zioo

I just found it after 3 hours of searching the internet: the elusive part number for the 1974-1977 microswitch. Wayne, please add the word microswitch in your parts search for the following parts numbers for your members and users: 911 613 106 00. It is featured by one of your competitors as G91161310600. Cost is just over $100.00. This is apparently an esoteric piece of information. Hopefully by adding it here, it will wind up on Rennlist as well--Zioo

Awesome build! I have a very similar setup in my 76. the car is a ton of fun and surprisingly quick.

update
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now I just need to figure out how to wire it to the 912


or stick it in the 21 window......

This is just crying to go in the 21-window VW.

In ’72 I collected all the pieces to put a paltry 2.0T in a then-new ’72 bus.
Done right, your 2.7 would ‘transport’ you to another dimension.

There are quite a number of very experienced Pelicans who have done this ‘right’. John Walker comes to mind.

Research what it will take to make this happen.
Leave your SWB ’66 912 stock.

Best,
Grady

I can not wait to see you driving with this new engine, so cool!
William G.

subscribed

Nice work, as I am going through this next month, where did you source the pistons and cams if I might ask.

Bought the pistons from Top End Performance via ebay (got a pretty good deal), then did a will call at JE in Huntington Beach.

One of my buddies gave me the "E" cams to use, we just did a switch-a-roo my CIS for his.

I am planning on installing the engine this weekend, EXCITED, if all goes to plan....

Dude you are doing this so fast, its really impressive. You're making this look easy. I have a bunch of questions and I hate to wreck your post but PMs are a pain in the ass to respond to. Can you explain what you had machined, and what to tell the machine shop you need.

Yes, super nice and fast!

I'm in the planing stage of doing the same.

1.What type of machining work did you decide to do ?
2. What work did you do on your case. a updates b repairs c studs d alignment

I would appreciate your time and experience. Thank you and keep the awesome work!

The book by Wayne is awesome, I can't stress that enough and two; the people on this forum are amazing as well (shouts to Steve and Rennworks! and John at Dougherty Racing Cams). I called them a couple times for parts and things that the book didn't cover.

I really lucked out on this engine, there wasn't any issues and I was told there was only about 40k miles on it. When I tore it apart I found out that the engine already had the major upgrades to it, casesavers, bypass, etc.... So I didn't have to machine the case. I have a lot of friends and family in the car business so I was fortunate to source parts at wholesale, which cut down a lot of the cost.

For my machine work, I sent my heads and rockers to Motor Meister (yes, I know they have a bad rep) - port polished and cleaned. For my cams, my buddy had some E cams lying around so I gave him my CIS and just did a swap. I bought my carbs on EBAY and manifolds/linkage was from Steve at Rennworks.

As for time, Luckily I have a little OCD, I was always looking 3 steps ahead to make sure I had everything I needed to for the next process, and for what ever step I was on, I would rehearse that step over and over in my head before attempting that part. As soon as I got home from work I would start to tinker, a couple of nights I was up til 2am, being young I can kinda do things like that :D

The toughest part of the build was the timing of the overlap, took a few times to get it right but it wasn't too bad and waiting for the machine work.



I was planning on installing it this weekend, but I didn't get the engine mounts, so hopefully next weekend. :/

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sump installed. Engine mounts where are thou. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291794360.jpg
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What size manifolds on a 2.7, 40x32 or 40x36. Did you do anything to the dizzy?

36mm. I didn't re curve the distributor like they say you should. I'll see if it still fires with out it and go from there.

I do have an electric point system xr700 by cranecams installed.

Had a a few hiccups tryin' to source some engine mounts and then welding them in...but finally that's over.

Planning on installing the engine this weekend. Way to start the New Year right!
sump installed
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Can't believe the difference in size
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Just got done installing the engine, had zero issues. Time to get ready for the New Year.

Tomorrow I'll turn it over, what a great way to start the New Year. Cheers

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How did you get the motor off of the floor in the middle picture above?

Hope the initial start-up went well (assuming you're doing it now).

Dave

I started out with one helper and needed a third...

First I rocked the motor at angle (fan side up) then placed it under a jack lift (mounted a piece of square plywood to the jack) then I put all my weight on to the engine mount to force the engine parallel to the ground. After that I placed two 2 x 6's horizontally to use as a place holder so I could reposition the jack in the middle of the engine.

It's kinda funny but I called my neighbor for a 3rd hand but we really only needed is his foot. The tranny wasn't tangling down enough for the hook-up so I had him on a ladder putting his weight on the tranny to help the angle of the tangle. It was a pretty funny picture.


Then bolted it to the tranny, raised the jack as high as it could go (not high enough) then re-used the 2x6's vertically to hold the engine up for a moment while I put 3 more pieces of wood to give me the added height that was needed.

Beautiful work!!!

Are those weber manifolds original or new PMO?
What kind of grommets you used to put the spark-plug wire through? Looks very neat and finished.

Thank you, keep us posted. Happy 2011

They are PMO manifolds that I purchased from Steve at Rennworks. The manifolds came with the rubber already installed.

it's ALIVE!!!

Started up no problem did the initial 20min run, had a little leak from the sump, but easily fixed. Couldn't take it out for the first drive :( because I ruined clutch clevis from the pedal cluster and on top of that it started raining, and that just feels wrong to have the first drive in the wet.

I still need to figure out the wiring for the alternator....sigh

Congratulations!

Any tips how you set up your webers for a first start?

Articles, post, experience?

Thank you, good luck

Congrats on the progress - it seemed to go relatively quick. My motor is still completely apart, however; all machining and just about all part sourcing has been done. Until my Mother-in-Law finishes her stay with us (3 weeks), plus having the house tented for termites right after she leaves, I'm not sure how much assembly I will be able to accomplish for the next month.

Just out of curiosity, for what parts and things (in general) did you need to call your sources a couple times that the book didn't cover?

Dave

To faverymi:

The webers were an easy plug and play, I had them dialed in for a "hotrod" 2.7, idle jets, venturi sizes, etc... From what I recall the book goes over the exact specs that are needed for each engine. If not, Google what ever you need. That's how I found a lot of my information I needed and most often then not, the search would show me a bunch of PP forums.



To Cipotifoso:

The book doesn't really go into detail about cam profiles (there's quite a few) so I wanted to find out what exactly each cam was designed for, also I am not the strongest reader so I would double check myself and call/post on this forum to reiterate things I didn't understand. One instance was the setting the cam timing. I spent an entire day studying up on /re-reading how to the set the timing. I then called John at Dougerty cams basically had him double check my steps. He said it was easy and honestly it wasn't that bad.


Tools!!! I called my friends a few times to borrow the Porsche specific tools. The crowsfoot, cam tool and an engine yoke (I made one, but when it was time to install the heat exchangers I needed the correct VW/Porsche yoke)


And Honestly the people on this forum are absolutely awesome, I don't think I found one person that wasn't able to help out or give their two cents on the questions I had.

Thank you. I will be following the book, it is very clear about what to use. I was picking your brain for some classified information:D

what are you ,an orioles fan?

nah, just my favorite colors. If you go through the photos... I have a picture of my boxed SSI with my black and orange bike that I built too.

Wiring
 

Can you please detail some of the wiring? It would really help me in my 912 conversion project. Thanks!