So when you say the starter is turning but the motor won't turn over, you mean it won't start, right?

You want the engine to be at #1 TDC firing (not TDC 360 degrees out of firing), and to end up with the tip of the distributor rotor on or pretty close to the mark/groove in the top of the steel part of the distributor - where the cap fits on. Sort of 2 o'clock or 3 o'clockish looking at things from the rear. That ought to be close.

To figure out which TDC s which (since the Z1 marks is in the same place for both, you can pull the left intake valve cover, and see what the valves are doing. But maybe you did this after timing the cams?

Checking to see if you have any spark is easy, so do that no matter what. If you don't have someone to help, get one of those remote starters that clamp onto the starter's connections so you can crank the motor and watch.

Pulling an injector (still attached to its line) will tell you not only if the gurgling you heard is fuel, but also if the pressures are at least enough to open the injector and squirt some fuel.

But spark is usually at the top of the internal combustion engine fault diagnosis tree.

Yes the starter is working fine, and I try for maybe 20 seconds or so, but the engine won't start.

Hmm, I see what you're saying. Even though I did have the rotor lined up with the notch on the side of the distributor while the Z1 was at the case parting line, it's possible I was on #4 instead of #1. I am also using a different rotor than I have before, one from a Turbo that has a 7000 rpm rev limit built in, part # 930-602-901-01. I will check the spark. I have a standard SC rotor I can try as well.

I'm off to work a 24 hour shift so I won't be able to try anything else until Saturday morning. Thanks for all of the help.

The dizzy was off by 180. It fired right up after I fixed that. YES!! :D

Thanks for the tips everyone, especially my friend Jim Brandon who helped me today.

Hoorah!!!

You know, it is really kind of fun to sit at the keyboard and ponder the symptoms someone else has given about some problem, and guess correctly what caused the problem!

Walter,
Symptoms are always the same with the same answers. Just experience weve had and on here there is so many with the same experience. 20 years ago we never had the combined experience available.
Years ago the only word of experience I had was " If the cams are set correctly, it has to run" and " if it has fuel, spark, and compression, good to go. If one is missing you have to figure whick one it is."
Bruce

And I'm so glad many of you were at the ready at your keyboards to answer my questions! I could not have done it without the help of this board.

Now that I've done the 20 minutes at 2000rpm and drained the oil, can I go out for the accelerating/decelerating in gear drive or do I need to get the timing set exactly where I want it? All I've done is put the distributor in at TDC for #1 but I haven't had it timed with a light.

I'd time it. On a deal like this I would have marked its location before disassembly, which would leave me pretty sure it was close enough.

Without that I'd want to time it, just to make sure it wasn't too far advanced, where it might cause preignition under heavy load. Timing lights are not expensive, and it is simple and quick to time it.

Will do, thanks.

Here are a couple of photos of me installing everything. If you are a one man show, I highly recommend the jack adapter shown here sold by our host. It perfectly balances the engine and transmission on your jack which allows you to easily maneuver it by yourself.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1311676666.jpg

Here's how I mated the engine and tranny.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1311676710.jpg

Installing everything.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1311676751.jpg

Great thread. I enjoyed reading all of it. My 78 ROW does not need as large as an project as this now, but the info in the threads was very useful. Thanks again.

Tom

I got the timing set and took it out for a good rip, accelerating hard then decelerating in gear dozens of times. The oil temp and pressure were all good and I didn't see any leaks when I got home. I can't say it feels especially powerful, but I'll find out tomorrow when I go to the dyno at 1:00.

Here are the dyno results. Keep in mind, the D class (big port USA SC motor) I have been using while I rebuilt mine made 193rwhp on the same dyno. A top flight Euro SC motor built by a race shop makes 215rwhp with 36 degrees and race gas.

My original stock motor with 113K miles and pre-74 heat exchangers made:
181rwhp
170 torque

Today the new motor (with about one hour of running time on it) with racing headers made:
163rwhp
176 torque

Here is the plot. The black line that starts on top of "STPPwr" is today's run, and the red line that starts just after it is the old motor. You can see that both the horsepower and torque start out higher than the old motor (black lines), but at around 5400 the new motor peaks, whereas the old one continues increasing until about 6000. It starts right up every time and idles smoothly without any throttle input. Before the rebuild I had to keep my foot on the gas to prevent it from dying when I started it.

The book says the cam timing spec is 0.9 to 1.1 so I set it to 1.0, although I just found a thread here that says it should be 1.4-1.7. I installed the camshaft oil line restrictors on the new motor. Also, the chains seem louder than they used to, or rather, I don't recall being able to hear chain noise before, but I hear it now. I'm starting to think I lost my cam timing when I installed the tensioners.

The ignition timing is set at 31. It was in the low 90s today and the dyno of my old motor was in October 2009 so it was probably in the 70s. I confirmed that I am getting full throttle by having my wife press the accelerator to the floor while I watched the linkage and the linkage can't travel any further.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1311793071.jpg

Torque v rwhp
 

I would be happier to make more torque than up in most situations

But it is an interesting comparison

Michael

Many believe it takes 500+ miles for the rings to properly and completely seat. You are essentially getting even dyno numbers with the new compared to the old. Since you will gain cylinder pressure as the new rings seat, I bet the dyno numbers go up after some miles.

I'm a believer in run it hard right out of the box. Drive it how you want it to run and don't baby the motor. Re-dyno it and have a beer handy for celebration.

Lindy

My rebuilt/converted Euro 3.0 got 208 RWHP at 5500 RPM right out of the box and we are shooting for another 10-15 on race gas once we figure out why its is going lean over 5500 RPM. Right now the rebuilt fuel distributor is going back for some fine tuning.

That is what the top shops get, and I am not expecting those kind of numbers since this is a home-built motor done by a novice, but I was hoping for around 200. Is your car all fixed up after WGI?

thanks for asking. We are almost there, the tub is straightened and everything is back together, just need to do some suspension and paint work and some fine tuning of the engine. I am hoping to do the NJMP club race.

Glad to hear it.

I'm assuming since you went from a USA to a Euro motor that you used new pistons, cylinders, and rings? If so, that would explain your instant power/ring seating. I found a post on here from Henry that says my old cylinders with new rings will take 500-1000 miles to seat.

Yes, new pistons, rings and cylinders. While I was not there for the dyno runs, I do know that the car spent an entire day there and used almost a full tank of gas while they were trying to figure out the fuel mixture issue. Perhaps running the engine hard at initial start up and on the dyno also aided the quick break in.

Wow that is a lot of CO they inhaled!

To update my situation, I re-checked my cam timing and the left is at 1.2, the right at 1.15. All of the valves were way way off. I think I timed the first cam 180 degrees off, then went about the rest of the procedure with the wrong TDC, which resulted in my incorrect valve adjustment. Anyway, I readjusted everything, took it for a drive, and it feels stronger. I think it will now just be a matter of seating the rings.

Thanks for everyone's help.