Anderson/Woods rebuilding course...a short review

Mike Juzenas · 12-11-2005, 12:54 PM

I just got back from the four day 911 engine rebuilding class put on by Bruce Anderson and Jerry Woods down in Campbell, California.

Overall it's an excellent class and well worth the $600. The format is Bruce doing slideshows about history/evolution and Jerry tearing down a shop motor and then rebuilding the engine up again. The class engine is an early 74 engine but Jerry trys to cover all the variations depending on the audience demand.

We had a large class (I think it was close to 15-16 people) but that was OK, I am loud enough to get my questions answered. There were two of us with 993 engines but I was the only one tearing it apart. Another fellow had a 964 engine that was rebuilt twice and in both case the mechanics screwed up and he now is rebuilding it the third time to do it right. He thinks that the previous attempts failed because the mechanics did not clean all the debris out of the oil system and eventually that stuff got back into the engine..pretty sad case. The rest of the class was earlier 911 (like 67-59) some 2.7 and 3.0 engines and so on. And of course Helidoc was there with his 962...now that is a challenge! I was the only one asking questions directly about the 993.

Jerry did agree that the idea of cutting keyways into the 993 cams and then putting the older style sprockets in order to time the cams in the old fashion way should work fine. I stopped by Part Heaven on the way to the airport and picked up some internal engine goodies to help convert my 96 993 to the 964 style sprockets so I am set. BTW Jerry does do 993 engines without the factory tools by using an iterative approach. I could do that but I also want a positive lock on the cams without any chances of slippage.

I might have been a little irritating since Jerry would talk about the engine and I would always pipe in "What about the 993?". However I did get all my questions answered and now have a pretty good handle on taking these engines apart...even the magical cam timing looks like a piece of cake now. I even now have some old fashioned valve lifters that I can use to set the timing.

It was amusing to read Wayne's book and then have Jerry refute that advice and present his own techniques. A classic example is the use of plastigauge to read the bearing clearances. Jerry does not use this method because he does not want to crush the new bearing shells and then remove and crush them again. He would rather crush them once so he relies on careful measurements of the crank and from that you can determine if you are OK. For instance if your crank measures in spec then with spec bearings you will be OK. Given his experience I would not doubt that works for him.

Bruce's presentations and stories are always entertaining and he definitely has good insight into what works and what approaches to take on these engines.

All in all, this course combined with Wayne's book, Bentley's, The Performance Handbook and a Porsche spec book for your car is an excellent base to do a DIY rebuild and I highly recommend it for anyone who is thinking (or wants to know) how the guts of these engine work.

The days are long (like from 8:45-6:30) but I never got sleepy since the stuff was so interesting.

I will post some pictures when I get the time.

Cheers,

Mike

helidoc · 12-13-2005, 06:46 PM

Ditto Mike on the positive thoughts about the course. And as for "irritating", I don't think anybody was with their questions. Jerry just seemed to answer the questions like they were supposed to be asked at that time, incorporating his answers into his talk. Most questions just seemed to provide valuable information that I think all could get something out of. Good luck on your project! I'm off to the machine shop in the LA area with my parts tomorrow.

38D · 12-13-2005, 07:06 PM

I did that class (along with the trans class) a few years ago. I really enjoyed it as well. Definitely worth the $s.

fastbacker · 12-14-2005, 06:59 AM

I was there also. I followed up the engine class with the tuning class (mostly maintence) and the transmission rebuild class.

Money well spent. As a bonus, you get to check out Jerry Woods Enterprises shop with all of the big boy toys. Lots of eye candy!

Craig Backer

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

I was there as well. If you take the engine class I would skip the maintainance class, a little redundant. I would have liked to take the tranny class but ran out of time. The info and tips given in the class are indispensable to the porsche "nut" no matter what year car you own (or hope to own). What Jerry can't answer (which isn't much) Bruce can fill you in on, so all questions are answered on the spot. And to see the work done in person makes it all come together. And Fastbacker, I agree it was well worth the $$ just to see the toys and the "Love" put into those cars by Jerry and his Guys. And Mike, all your questions were good ones since it's an air cooled, otherwise you'd have been "Strung Up". Oh, hey sorry Heliodoc. You get a free pass since your's is a 962
(Just kidding, it was alot of fun guys, and good lunches to boot) Craig

fastbacker · 12-15-2005, 09:55 PM

Hey Craigster59-

Not only do we have the same first name, I just noticed in your signature that we both have an sc and a 65 Mustang - and I just sold my Tacoma.

CB

CRNT918 · 12-16-2005, 08:41 PM

I was there as well. I'll have to agree with what everyone else said,
however, I don't think I'll be able to eat Italian food for a long time!
Pete

Mike Juzenas · 12-16-2005, 09:51 PM

Yup, I agree with having Italian twice in the week was enough for me since I eat it about once a year (I tend towards the Asian/Indian foods). I made a comment to Bruce about it and he said "You got a problem with that?".. ;-)

Kmatts · 02-02-2006, 12:03 PM

can someone post a link to the website that has the class times/costs?
I've tried to find it with no luck, sorry i'm sure this has been posted before.
K.

fastbacker · 02-02-2006, 12:57 PM

http://www.911handbook.com/

Kmatts · 02-02-2006, 01:03 PM

thanks so much!!

afterburn 549 · 02-02-2006, 08:56 PM

I dont understand the bearing shell thing/game/prey for/.......there are millions of engines operating that have had their bearings crushed...course Porsche people sometimes get a little eccentric about philosophical ideas.....course that's my idea.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Juzenas
It was amusing to read Wayne's book and then have Jerry refute that advice and present his own techniques. A classic example is the use of plastigauge to read the bearing clearances. Jerry does not use this method because he does not want to crush the new bearing shells and then remove and crush them again. He would rather crush them once so he relies on careful measurements of the crank and from that you can determine if you are OK. For instance if your crank measures in spec then with spec bearings you will be OK. Given his experience I would not doubt that works for him.

Everyone's got their own way of doing things. I agree that if you have an in-spec crankshaft, and an in-spec set of bearings then your clearances will 100% be correct. However, how do you make sure that your bearings were manufactured correctly? There's really not much "crushing" going on with the bearings, but for argument's sake, if there were, then that would make it difficult to predict the final clearances based upon preliminary measurements.

Either way, the bearings are usually not a concern. I don't know anyone who has ever found a set to be out of spec...

-Wayne

afterburn 549 · 06:57 PM

yea and most of us dont own a machine shop and thats are last ditch effort to make sure............and to top it off this plastigauge crap has saved my butt 3 times!!, wrong bearings in box, an other time the guy did not know what metric was for my application and guessed-wrong and....well you get the picture.
One engine was a big diesel.....if I had not used the plasti stuff it would have been a big mess.......

sundog · 02-06-2006, 09:18 AM

I'm the one with the 964 that is on it's 3rd rebuild. In closer examination of the reciepts from the previous 2 rebuilds, I have found that the part numbers used for the rod bearings are inconsistent.

In the PET, the connecting rod bearing has a part number of 930-103-147-00. However, I have found that the part number used on both of the previous rebuilds has been 914-103-141-00. This is apparantly the number for the 71-77 911 engine. Does anybody know the difference? The 930 part number is about $105, while the 914 part is about $35.

The class was well worth the time and money!

Mike Juzenas · 02-06-2006, 01:59 PM

Hi Bryan,

I don't know if this wiil help you. The bushings I bought for my 993 are part numbers 993 103 134 01 and were $3/each. They are a porsche part from Porsche through EBS...one of the cheapest parts I every bought from them. I seem to recall the 964 con rods are a bit wider so they won't have the same part numbers.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike Juzenas · 02-06-2006, 02:20 PM

Woops I thought you meant the wrist pin bushings, not the rod bearings...

The rod bearings I used are part number 993 103 147 15 and was $75.00. Again not much use since since its not a 964 or before part number..

Cheers,

Mike

Rob 930 · 02-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Were there any other points made by Bruce Anderson or Jerry Woods that question the advice given by Wayne in his book?

dvdman · 02-15-2006, 11:23 PM

I'm going to try to take this class myself this year. Are there any professional classes that can be taken anywhere else? I wouldn't mind starting a side business rebuilding engines for friends and family members (yeah I know that many Porsche owners).

Mike Juzenas · 02-16-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvdman
I'm going to try to take this class myself this year. Are there any professional classes that can be taken anywhere else? I wouldn't mind starting a side business rebuilding engines for friends and family members (yeah I know that many Porsche owners).

I have not seen any other courses. Bruce did mention someone else tried to put on similar courses but it died after a few years. These courses are only on a few times a year ; while they make good money during the course I don't think the market is that large to sustain much more. Now that Wayne has his book out the idea of rebuilding these engines becomes much more feasible and I think it also changed the course in that the people attending have much more knowledge going in.

Cheers,

Mike