Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   911 Engine Rebuilding Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/)
-   -   Saving a 906 (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/686273-saving-906-a.html)

Henry Schmidt 06-29-2012 09:52 AM

Saving a 906
 
The following are pictures of a 906 engine we brought back to it's previous glory.
The case was the first challenge.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340988265.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340988283.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340988714.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340988444.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340988583.jpg

Henry Schmidt 06-29-2012 10:28 AM

The next challenge was the crank. This project came with a stock 2.0 counter weighted crank. We searched high and low for a 906 crank with no luck.
We wanted something special so we replicated a 906 crank.

Here's a factory 906 crank:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340990673.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340990713.jpg

Here's what we made:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340990869.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340990779.jpg

Henry Schmidt 06-29-2012 10:44 AM

Next the rods.
I wanted to build it with new GT3 Pankl titanium rods but the customer insisted we use the Factory rods that came with it. The set he had was horribly mismatched so we went on the search for more rods.
That meant, X-ray and Zyglow for cracks. Then we took the 10 rods we had and balanced them. Shot peening and re-sizing finished the job. We were also able to locate some NOS small end bushings.
The last touch was new titanium rod bolts and Supertec serrated, flanged nuts.
The same nuts we use on our head stud kits.
The bearings are unobtanium so we sent them to Calico Coating to ensure our best chance of survival.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340992140.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340991690.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340991636.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340991658.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340991720.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1340992073.jpg

YTNUKLR 06-30-2012 01:35 PM

Awesome!

peon77 06-30-2012 01:59 PM

That is awesome, I can't wait to see more of the assembly. Thanks for sharing Henry!

parts4porsche 07-01-2012 05:21 PM

amazing job!
 
Herry,

you said you "Shot peening and re-sizing finished the job"

I have some GT-3 rods(3 sets), but all of them are used and all show some king of wear/abnormal ovalization(egg shape) about 0.02mm (from 0.005 to 0.02mm)how do you feel about those numbers?

also I hear that those ti rods are no good for turbo charged engines even with ARP rod bolts, is it also proceed? engine will be for performance street most of time, and no more than 800hp and no more than 7500rpm

could you please tell me what you would do? use it or not, re-sized is good idea? re-coat the sides to prevent it seize with the crank? what coating would you suggest?

thank you
Tadashi

tadd 07-02-2012 08:05 AM

Shot peen
 
Henry:
Which process did you use for the rods?

It's my understanding that there is a standard mil spec for Ti, but then there is a different, more aggressive 'refurbshment' process as well. Chris mentioned it in another thread way back. It's supposed to 'zero hour' Ti fatigue by litterally beating the stress risers out :D.

tadd

chris_seven 07-02-2012 09:16 AM

Tadd,

I have always used these guys UK based operations. They have been in the business for a good many years and do a great deal of work on Turbine and Rotor parts for Helicopters.

Metal Improvement | Shot Peening Success Stories for Aerospace Applications

tadd 07-02-2012 10:14 AM

Henry:
Another question...can you give a rational for using serrated nuts on a Ti rod? This seems odd given the little I know about the properties of titanium.

tadd

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadd (Post 6835105)
Henry:
Another question...can you give a rational for using serrated nuts on a Ti rod? This seems odd given the little I know about the properties of titanium.

tadd

I use them because they are the highest quality nuts I can find and I use them on every 10mm rod bolt in my rebuilds.

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 10:04 AM

The crank and rods assembled. Note the piston squirters. You might also notice that there are no CaseSavers in the mag case. This is possible because of the additional thread engagement offered by the Supertec head studs.
We wanted to use 906 cylinders and custom JE pistons so we bore the cylinders to 81mm (stripping the Chromal coating) and replaced it with Nikasil.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334585.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334616.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334659.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334684.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334707.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334728.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334746.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334767.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341334790.jpg

tadd 07-03-2012 10:18 AM

Nuts
 
Henry:
Thank you for the reply.

I'm sure they are a quality nut. The reason I asked is the notch sensivity of Ti, which you are well aware of or you wouldnt have peened the rods. Those serrations are going to damage the rod surface...right in an area of high stress.

Are you using a washer or some other way to avoid this? I can't tell from the pictures.

I apprecieate you taking the time to cure ignorance.

tadd

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 10:35 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341335664.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336513.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336556.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336588.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336616.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336647.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336811.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336885.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336924.jpg

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 10:41 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341336984.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337005.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337052.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337069.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337088.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337110.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337232.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337260.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341337281.jpg

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadd (Post 6837122)
Henry:
Thank you for the reply.

I'm sure they are a quality nut. The reason I asked is the notch sensivity of Ti, which you are well aware of or you wouldnt have peened the rods. Those serrations are going to damage the rod surface...right in an area of high stress.

Are you using a washer or some other way to avoid this? I can't tell from the pictures.

I apprecieate you taking the time to cure ignorance.

tadd

The serrations do not damage the surface of the rods and the wide flange offers superior support to standard nuts with or without washers.

neilca 07-03-2012 01:48 PM

Henry,

You picture sequence shows the heads being assembled onto the cylinders prior to installing the cam housings. Since the cam housing to cylinder head interface is doweled and thus unforgiving in placement, shouldn't the cam towers and heads be mated before installing on the cylinders?

BTW beautiful work as always.

Thanks,

neilca

Henry Schmidt 07-03-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilca (Post 6837452)
Henry,

You picture sequence shows the heads being assembled onto the cylinders prior to installing the cam housings. Since the cam housing to cylinder head interface is doweled and thus unforgiving in placement, shouldn't the cam towers and heads be mated before installing on the cylinders?

BTW beautiful work as always.

Thanks,

neilca

Either way works fine. Of course you can't torque the heads until after the cam towers are installed. By installing the heads on the cylinders you can check how even the heads are in relationship to each other. This also allows you to turn the engine over at each step.
This way also makes installing the head nuts and washers far easier. It also gives you a nice working platform.

You might also notice that the cylinders are installed before installing the head studs making it far easier to install the pistons in the cylinder then install the wrist pin and clip. Supertec head studs make this assembly technique possible.

Raceboy 07-03-2012 11:17 PM

Very nice work, seriously!

And very impressive case repair (welding magnesium+machining).

andrew15 07-03-2012 11:21 PM

Thats' some impressive welding skill!

neilca 07-04-2012 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 6837534)
Either way works fine. Of course you can't torque the heads until after the cam towers are installed. By installing the heads on the cylinders you can check how even the heads are in relationship to each other. This also allows you to turn the engine over at each step.
This way also makes installing the head nuts and washers far easier. It also gives you a nice working platform.

You might also notice that the cylinders are installed before installing the head studs making it far easier to install the pistons in the cylinder then install the wrist pin and clip. Supertec head studs make this assembly technique possible.

I had not noticed the head studs,, thanks for the heads up. That does make sense.

Gary De 07-05-2012 07:56 AM

Henry, that is pure art work!!!! It apears that the top of the piston has a coating along with the skirt area. The skirt looks black. Are you using some type of dry film lube on the skirt and a thermal barrier on the top?

KTL 07-05-2012 09:13 AM

Pretty stuff! Thanks for sharing how you check piston & deck clearance with the red clay.

Also notice the thermostat blockoff RSR piece. That means this engine will be running an oil filter console, or will the oil cooler simply be flowing at all times?

I like how the small displacement engines have so much "meat" around the piston bores. The larger displacement engines have always bugged me with how close are the head stud holes to the piston bore OD.

daepp 07-05-2012 09:36 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but is this actually going into a 906?

Beautiful engine BTW!

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 09:42 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506181.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506263.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506230.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506324.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506353.jpg

Sometimes fine tuning is required
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506387.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506438.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506462.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506483.jpg

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 09:52 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506602.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506623.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506644.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506667.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506687.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341506740.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341507072.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341507095.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341507112.jpg

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEpperson (Post 6840599)
Excuse my ignorance, but is this actually going into a 906?

Beautiful engine BTW!

Hi Dave
Yes sir, 906 0022

KTL 07-05-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 6840633)

There's my answer. Factory Porsche multi-screen filter console.

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary De (Post 6840395)
Henry, that is pure art work!!!! It apears that the top of the piston has a coating along with the skirt area. The skirt looks black. Are you using some type of dry film lube on the skirt and a thermal barrier on the top?

The pistons are coated with a thermal barrier and dry film lubricant. We also coat the bearings and rocker pads as well as the cam lobes.
The valve stems are also coated with dry Moly.

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 10:42 AM

We also did the trans:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509629.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509648.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509750.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509763.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509773.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509827.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509902.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509914.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509930.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341509942.jpg

LJ851 07-05-2012 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 6840633)




Henry, what coating/plating are you using on the mag parts? Looks really nice.

Henry Schmidt 07-05-2012 11:16 AM

The coating is a Dow product that was contracted by the shop doing the body restoration. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

tadd 07-06-2012 08:18 AM

Henry,
One more question if I may please.... Lash caps. Did you reuse what was there or did you need to replace them? If you did change them, might you share where you got them?

I will be needing to do this process myself soon.

Make that two questions...Were the tensioners for authenticity? In other words why not use solids given it's going into a 'real' car that will see maintenance respectful of use.

tadd

Henry Schmidt 07-06-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadd (Post 6842390)
Henry,
One more question if I may please.... Lash caps. Did you reuse what was there or did you need to replace them? If you did change them, might you share where you got them?

I will be needing to do this process myself soon.

Make that two questions...Were the tensioners for authenticity? In other words why not use solids given it's going into a 'real' car that will see maintenance respectful of use.

tadd

We were fortunate enough to source NOS valves so we needed to adjust every valve. We used what we had by dancing them around and hand lapping for precise measurements. That left us needing 4 specific sizes. With those numbers in hand we just ordered the sizes we needed from Porsche Motorsport.

We used hydraulic tensioners because they work well under these circumstances: occupational racing and short runs without warm up. IE: "check out how cool my 906 sounds".

daepp 07-06-2012 10:34 AM

I should probably know this, but do you test run your motors before they go back out? IF so, you REALLY need to record that sound!

Henry Schmidt 07-06-2012 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEpperson (Post 6842648)
I should probably know this, but do you test run your motors before they go back out? IF so, you REALLY need to record that sound!

Engines shipped from my shop re ship dry and untested unless the customer requests a dyno test.
In this case, his race mechanic will tune the engine.

Zitzit 07-13-2012 04:26 AM

Hello!

is there any chance to have a picture of the center lube cam to chain housing seals. They are known to be unobtanium and never saw one...

Another question, hos did you do to "replicate" the 906 crank? is that something you are able to make on order? if yes, would you send me details by PM?

Thanks a lot!

olivier.

dinobx 07-13-2012 05:07 AM

Hello Henry,

Absolutely beautiful work you're doing. Quick question. I thought we were all supposed to use a five or six arm engine yolk to hold the engine on the stand. Yours is just four arm. Any insight?

Thanks.

Dino

YTNUKLR 07-13-2012 11:41 PM

Is there anything special to the 906 trans? It looks different from a 901 outside, but the gear stack looks the same. Is that a one-piece bearing retainer? In 1966?

chris_seven 07-14-2012 12:26 AM

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/Demolish.jpg

Great picture - reminds me of a similar photograph in a very early Honda CB72 manual in a chapter titled 'How to Demolish the Engine' :)

fanaudical 07-14-2012 08:11 AM

Beautiful work! Thank you for sharing.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.