How to inspect and buy a 2.7 engine?

[9fourteen]

I'm going to look at a 2.7 next week for my 914. It looks to be a complete engine and advertised as such. It has not been rebuilt and said to be all original. My plan is to do a full tear down and rebuild of the engine. I may do some performance modifications but not sure what at this point. I'm a complete novice so don't ask me anything too specific of my plans. I just want to get a good engine to start with and start learning from there. Is there anything specific I should make sure it has? Anything I should be looking for? Any questions I should be asking? I know these engines are notorious for the pulled head studs. Is there a way to tell if this is the case by looking at the outside of the case? Is there anything that could prevent this engine from being rebuilt? The seller has stated that it will probably not produce good numbers on a leak down test just because of the age and how long it has been sitting. I agree but should I perform one anyways? If I am rebuilding does it matter?

Any other advice would be appreciated. I talked to the seller on the phone and he sounds knowledgeable and honest but I want to at least have some knowledge before I walk in and buy the engine.

Thanks

[Flat6pac]

Its never been a solid investment. The 2.7 is more than just pulled head studs, its center bearing straightness as the company used heat to meet the emissions.
The cost of purchase is about 25 to 30 percent of the aluminum 3.0. After spending say $5000 on it, $6000 total in it, which is low but just for reference, wanting to sell it you might get $.25 on the dollar of your money back. There is something you didnt do on the build and that will make the offers plummit. Its too easy to find something you diidnt do on a 2.7
On the 3.0 you ll have to pay upward of $3000 for a complete running core. A few hundred for valve job and gaskets, 12 replacement studs and some other while youre there
and you have $6000 in the engine and can get most of that money back out of it.
Ones a purchase and the other is an investment.
Bruce

[bassfishman]

My 2.7 had 70k on it when the guides went. The engine was in great shape otherwise. It still cost almost 10k to rebuild properly. If you cut any corners it will not last.

[9fourteen]

Bruce,

You are throwing some numbers around and say you can get a good running 3.0 core for $3000. Not sure if that was a "low for reference only" price or not. What price should I be paying for a non-running 2.7L core?

Thanks

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by 9fourteen

Bruce,

You are throwing some numbers around and say you can get a good running 3.0 core for $3000. Not sure if that was a "low for reference only" price or not. What price should I be paying for a non-running 2.7L core?

Thanks

How much does scrap magnesium cost these days? kidding.

Maybe $1k, if that. The case of a non-running 2.7 is going to need a ton of machining to it alone. An align-bore is about a grand, and time-certs are what, $400 now? Either way, you're better off getting a running 2.7, or even better, a 3.0.

[Flat6pac]

The point is a running engine as a core. If a 3.0 isnt running the price drops drastically because non running can mean anything from a spun rod or bad CIS or leaking like a seive.
jumped time. You dont know what youre getting so the value is lost.
Non running 2.7, you cant part it for for value, I dont see $700, probably closer to $500, then hoping you didnt let yourself get taken advantage of.
I didnt say good running, I said running 3.0 core
Bruce

[9fourteen]

The engine I am looking is way over priced. I guess I'll just keep looking. Probably hold out for a running 3.0 core. Sounds like that is my best bet. From what you guys are saying and from all the negative comments I have read on the 2.7 I am worried that even if I negotiated a fair price I am taking a big risk and probably looking at a very expensive rebuild.

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by 9fourteen

The engine I am looking is way over priced. I guess I'll just keep looking. Probably hold out for a running 3.0 core. Sounds like that is my best bet. From what you guys are saying and from all the negative comments I have read on the 2.7 I am worried that even if I negotiated a fair price I am taking a big risk and probably looking at a very expensive rebuild.

The only reason to stick with the 2.7 is if you feel the car has to be numbers matching. Other than that, it's going to cost a lot more than a 3.0 and you won't get as much out of it if you go to sell the car. Keep looking for that 3.0. I saw one on the for sale forum here that had been freshly rebuilt for around $5500-6k. That's a steal in my book (assuming the paperwork shows everything was done).

[9fourteen]

Originally Posted by Packet82

The only reason to stick with the 2.7 is if you feel the car has to be numbers matching. Other than that, it's going to cost a lot more than a 3.0 and you won't get as much out of it if you go to sell the car. Keep looking for that 3.0. I saw one on the for sale forum here that had been freshly rebuilt for around $5500-6k. That's a steal in my book (assuming the paperwork shows everything was done).

I saw the engine that you were referring to. Besides all the negative feedback on the 2.7, that engine and the price convinced me that the 3.0 was the way to go. I want the satifaction of rebuilding the engine myself but it is hard not to consider one that is already done and ready to go, especially for that price. I am in no rush so I will just keep my eye out and eventually the right engine will come around. This leads me back to my original questions. Is there some sort of buyers guide or something for Porsche engines? My initial questions were specific towards the 2.7. Now I need guidance for a 3.0. I got a few reference books so I will start with those as well as this site but any additional info would be appreciated.

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by 9fourteen

I saw the engine that you were referring to. Besides all the negative feedback on the 2.7, that engine and the price convinced me that the 3.0 was the way to go. I want the satifaction of rebuilding the engine myself but it is hard not to consider one that is already done and ready to go, especially for that price. I am in no rush so I will just keep my eye out and eventually the right engine will come around. This leads me back to my original questions. Is there some sort of buyers guide or something for Porsche engines? My initial questions were specific towards the 2.7. Now I need guidance for a 3.0. I got a few reference books so I will start with those as well as this site but any additional info would be appreciated.

Well, the cheapest way to do it is if you buy one already rebuilt. If you want to do it yourself though, there are a couple things to look for. If you can find yourself a 3.0 with Mahle nikasil cylinders, you'll save yourself a ton of money. Make sure the leakdown numbers are decent on the engine. Other than that, you won't really know until you get it apart.

Since you're putting it in a car that came with a 2.7, make sure the engine comes with all the CIS bits you need. Otherwise you'll have to track them down by yourself.

[afterburn 549]

Most any engine inspection is dubious at best..Paper work, receipts knowledge of the builder and machinist is helpful..in the end......its your problem
The 2.7 Has a bad reputation for good reason....I own one and have done every upgrade known to man and Porsche person...
I stick with it cause it matches the numbers to my car and is supposedly 30 pounds lighter then a AL case...
The Main Bngs to fit a line bored case are now all most unobtainium ....

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

The Main Bngs to fit a line bored case are now all most unobtainium ....

Yup, but there are machinists that can line bore it back to standard. Ollie's did this to my 3.0 as it was one of the rare aluminum cases that apparently needed it.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by Packet82

Yup, but there are machinists that can line bore it back to standard. Ollie's did this to my 3.0 as it was one of the rare aluminum cases that apparently needed it.

true can be done.......but now there is a can of worms with deck HT and sprocket size on cam chain.

[larrym]

"best buyers guide" re 2.7 is Bruce Anderson's book - second best is Wayne's book

- buy them both right here on Pelican Parts

- read them very carefully

- then come back here for more opinions in a couple months

depends on what your budget is - ?

if you have $15K cash, right now - go for the best rebuilt 3.2 you can find

if you only have $2K and think you can substitute your labor for expert shop work and new parts already in place, or in lieu of paying for an engine on which the work has already been done, it doesn't make any difference which engine you buy

- it will eventually cost you north of $12K, and months of work, to have the reliable rebuilt motor you apparently seek

if you have about $8K cash to spend, right now, there are a few good low-miles- built-right 2.7's & larger on various of these porsche sites, including the PCA site - see the latest Panorama for one of them

another example - I have both a 5K miles 2.7, built right, AND a '88 3.2 "documented running good when removed" - both for sale in the classifieds sections of Pelican & World - negotiable in the $6-7K range depending on how much of the peripherals you want included - plus shipping of course

- also find several 3.2s on eBay regularly in the $6-7K range

.

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

true can be done.......but now there is a can of worms with deck HT and sprocket size on cam chain.

All you need is slightly thicker shims on the cylinders at that point. Ollie's gave me a set with the case and the deck height came out perfectly within spec.