Injector sleeves:

For sanity's sake - this evening I grabbed one of the old busted injector sleeves to see if it was the same length as the new ones: yup - they are the same length.

So, I am going to have to figure out how to get these injector sleeves in their proper location. I think that the CIS is going to need to come out now, because I am sure that I will break something trying to press these sleeves in further. Suggestions are certainly welcome there.

Again, thanks all for the input thus far.

I used a socket just slightly smaller than the sleeve and tapped them home. Wasn't difficult at all.

I had a few hours to work on the car this weekend, while it was really cold. It has become evident to me that I need to put the project "run a 220 line into the garage, to run the more convenient electrical heater" closer to the top of the list of priorities.

So, I ran a test (under the direction from Tony on how to) to determine the control (fuel) pressure and system pressure.

We were not really able to conclude that a *specific* component was "bad" - but were able to conclude that the control pressure was too high. So, I removed the WUR and Fuel distributor to send to Tony to have him perform a test - to see if they are the culprits.

For the others on the forum, and because I was unable to really determine what to do to run the fuel pump with a jumper, I will share a couple pictures. I do realize that this is a really elementary thing to do, but I am sure that someone will use the "search" function and may find this useful.

Make a jumper wire harness, with a switch on it, and connect terminals 30 and 87a, in the fuel pump relay socket.

Jumper harness:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385921325.jpg

Fuel pump relay removed from the fuse panel: in this instance (1979 model year), terminals 30 and 87a are marked with white paint pen for future usage.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385921432.jpg


Then, put the key in the ignition, put it to the on/run position,
Then, throw the jumper switch to the "ON" position. You will hear the fuel pump run.

Next on my list, pull the intake runners and put the injector sleeves in correctly.

Good stuff. If I could add, build the jumper with an in-line fuse.

Injector sleeves - driven into correct position
 

CharlieV: good addition. Next time I use this beast, I will add the in-line fuse..

Today - after my post this morning, I decided to give a shot at getting the injector sleeves into the correct position. Not too bad of a job all told, and YES, this job can be done with the engine in the car.

My first inclination was to pull the CIS in it's entirety, and do this job one runner at a time. I started to unbolt things (took the blower motor out), and a light went off in my head to try to pull one runner (#1 runner) and see if there was a mess of aluminum shavings all over the place when I ground down the old stake marks.

So I pulled runner #1 and put it on the work bench:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385942827.jpg

And then I ground the old stake marks off, cleaned up my mess (shopvac), and put the new injector-sleeve in there: with a fine bit of loc-tite red on the O-ring, and drove it home with a 13mm socket and my maple mallet. Then I used a cold-chisel and deformed the edges like they did in the factory (although - it does not look perfect, it will work just fine, I am sure).


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385943031.jpg

At this point, I realized that there was much more of a mess/hazard potential by me attempting to pull the CIS, dismantle it, and install the sleeves one at a time - so, I did cylinders 2 - 6 while in the car. Same thing, working one runner at a time, driving all of these injector sleeves down with my 13mm long socket and maple mallet.

Clean-up was pretty easy - since I ran the shopvac as I was grinding the old stake marks off, I kept a very close eye on the surroundings to make sure no particles found their way into the open engine.... and cleaned the excess loc-tite red off with a shop towel. Enjoy the pictures.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385943445.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385943479.jpg

In sum, this is a very do-able job, but the the #6 cylinder is a bit of a pain considering the number of components that are in the area (charcoal container, CIS air box, etc etc).

Thank you Tony for the tips on the install, and thank you tony/gary for pointing out that these things needed to be driven down.

Much better!

Troubleshooting update.........
 

Brian,

I was able to do some testing today. The WUR-045 and FD-031 you sent me are both good and working fine. Here are the data I collected:

WUR-045:
At 50°F, CP = 23 psi. (spec. 17 - 23), WCP = 50 psi. (spec. 49 - 55).

FD-031:
System fuel pressure at 73 psi. (spec. 65 - 75).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386385830.jpg


Summary:

1). The leak you had in the WUR shown in the picture you posted was occurring at the upper chamber which is atmosphere. The lower chamber (vacuum side) is good and could register good vacuum up to 22" Hg.

2). The fuel pressures you were getting in your tests were erroneous. You need a good working CIS pressure gauge kit. When we were talking over the phone, you were getting like 58 psi. control and 58 psi. system using the HF kit. The HF gauge was reading the same number regardless the valve was closed or open.

3). Both WUR & FD are good.

4). Since you had adjusted the fuel mixture to RICH condition to get the engine run better, I suggest that you pressure test the CIS air box. You have to remove it from the engine and do an immersion test to eliminate the air box as a culprit. Yes, you have to remove it. Why? I bought 4 CIS air boxes this year and all were claimed by sellers to be in good working condition when removed from the car. All four (4) were leaking from the seams.

Now, if you do the pressure test in situ, it is almost physically impossible to see and observe the bottom and rear side of the CIS air box. Not being able to find a vacuum leak does not mean you don't have any. Test and confirm.

5). It is almost one year anniversary of this post you started in Dec. 2012 and you've done a lot to get your Dad's car back on the road. You did your best and I applaud your effort. I like to see this car on the road before X'mas if you have the time to attend to it. Otherwise, we have a long winter to get this job done.

Season's Greetings to Everyone!!!!!!!!


Tony

I'll drink to that Tony .... what a year it's been for our man Brian, and what a commendable endeavor!

We are all pulling for you!

Tony:

Thank you for the help and trouble shooting assistance thus far.

Despite my desire not to want to pull the CIS and Air Box ... (I mean - I really really really really really really do not want to have to do this...) that is the next logical thing to test and rule out... Looks like I am going to do a partial drop and pull the box to test it.

So, I puttered my way out to the (COLD!) garage this morning, and disconnected the shift coupler as my first step, and have grabbed my ATV jack from my storage shed to do this partial drop.

Make a decision........
 

Robey,

The reason I suggested removing the air box for pressure test versus in situ is debatable!!!! Assuming that you decided not to remove the air box and go ahead, that's fine with me. But what happens if later after all the work you have done pointed to a vacuum leak? Maybe the air box is good, and I hope it is.

My logic in CIS troubleshooting is to reduce variables down to a manageable level. There are so many variables that could affect the process. So testing and verifying, components, conditions, set-up, etc. give you a better understanding of what you have on hand.

I still have to find an CIS engine I could not make to RUN!!!!! Your engine had been running already so you are ahead in the ball game. What it needs is fine tuning and setting the needed parameters to make it run good. So you need tools and instrument to measure or check these. Tweaking the fuel mixture like you did only put you in a disadvantage because the vacuum integrity of the system could have been compromised and we don't know it at this point.

Lastly, since you are an engineer/technical person, let's deal with measurable data or information. For example, refrain from giving data or feedback like 'fuel pressure are with in spec', we need numbers in psi or bar. You have done a lot of work getting to this point. Just be patient a little bit more and you'll get this car running very soon.

Tony

Tony:

I appreciate the perspective. I am with you on this, and the decision is already made: the air box is coming out to be tested.

Best case scenario; I pull the air box, test it, and it is air-tight - and I put it back in there knowing such. Then we can move on to other areas in the engine that could be our culprits.

I am going to do this job in small increments, because I don't have blocks of time available to me of more than a couple hours max. I will post pictures when I am able.

Airbox is out
 

I was able to spend a little time today on her; the airbox is out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387055899.jpg


This job was not as bad as I thought it was, I worked slowly and methodically - 3 hours.

I think that I may have found a MASSIVE air leak

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387055979.jpg

This bolt (not sure what it is used for) was loose, and able to be turned by hand. I must not have tightened it down when I put the engine back together.

Because I am not really satisfied with just tightening it and throwing it back in the car: I will be testing this airbox anyhow (after I put some teflon tape and such on this bolt).

Slow but steady progress...

Air/vac leak source found during removal........
 

Brian,

You would have not found or discovered this air/vac leak source if you did the test in situ. Removal of the air box gives you the opportunity to inspect and test it from all angles. Plus you could perform the immersion test like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387056895.jpg

Before packing and sending the air box to another PP member, I did a final vacuum test. Note the snow on the ground; wife was home and could not use the bathtub.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387056998.jpg

It takes only a few minutes to do all these testing and requires cheap hardware supplies from your local hardware stores.

Tony

M****** airbox
 

With the airbox out of the car, I set my sights on testing this thing in my laundry tub - today.

I went and grabbed 7 stoppers, and some gasket material (that I ended up using) for this test. I got home and finished my outdoor chores quickly (shoveling the drive, clearing the gutters to avoid an ice dam among others).

With the amount of snow we got over the last few days, I sent my wife out to snowboard, and I set up shop in the kitchen.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387160759.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387160783.jpg

I then brought my test down to the laundry tub (full of water) and performed the "airbox" pressure test.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1387160885.jpg

Is that a bubblin crude? Nope, it is the seal at the rear of the pop-off valve which is leaking air. If there was an emoticon that would display me flipping this 'new' airbox the bird, I would insert that now.

So, the way I see it, I have 2 options.

1) get a new pop off valve, and attempt to install it in this airbox. This is OK with me, considering the one that is in there was oriented incorrectly by the person that I bought this from. The problem is that it will be a science project of removing things that have been epoxied together and will make this airbox more sloppy than it already is.

2) get a new airbox, and test again. I like those metal ones (if one will ever become available at a reasonable price); and I am also considering brand new; even though these are getting pricey.


I suppose if nothing else - that this is a cautionary tale. I kind of wish I would have tested this airbox when I got it earlier this year.

good job finding the possible air leak...thx boyt911sc for the test set up pics...
well...I think you did great here as you found 2 leaks...!!
get em fixed & reinstall & prepare to re set the engine fuel mixture via the fuel dist allen wrench...
keep us informed...you are making great progress...!! stay on this roll...

The leak at the pop off should be repairable. I would suggest going that route before replacing.

Ok, we are going to try to repair the leak first before digging into a new box.

I'm going to assume that the valve can stay in place, and I can try to repair the leak only at this point.

Any suggestions are certainly welcome on leak repair. In parallel I am going to review other pelican-er's postings on their repair experiences.

Can you see the crack/space where it is leaking? Rough up the area and JB Weld or some sort of epoxy.

+1.

I have found Goop to work well for numerous repair applications. Amazing GOOP Adhesive Products Biggest thing is something that will tolerate oil/grease over time.

I agree
 

Agreed!
I went through the same thing. You have to verify that pully TDC matches Dizzy position under the cap and on the rotor. It is also very easy to get the dizzy gear 1 tooth out of position when reinstalling. Verify this. My PO also had me 180 degrees off at one point with dizzy cap position......it's all coming back to me!