Extent of 3.2L rebuild w/30k miles?

[Gordo2]

Folks,

Trying to figure out the extent of rebuild I should get into on a 3.2L motor I that purchased.

The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner in 2001, 30k miles since rebuild.

Question/rebuild options being considered (details below for those interested)

#1. Top-end & bottom-end rebuild with replacement of normal rebuild parts (essentially refresh to 0 miles)
#2. Drop in new pistons and cams, inspect heads, replace parts as needed (exhaust studs, seals etc) and close it back up (i.e. top end R&R, leave bottom-end buttoned up)
#3. Open the case, but inspect and replace parts as wear indicates (i.e. inspect timing chain gear, bearings and other items for wear, replace as necessary).

Thanks, Gordo

Background on the engine:
----------------------------
- I purchased the engine in 2009. Rebuilt in 2001, driven 30k miles and then garaged garaged 2005-2009.

- The engine ran when I bought it - rough though. Consistently stumbled to 2k RPM then solid to 6k (I think it had a fuel problem - possibly just old). No unusual sounds (knocking or otherwise). No leak down or compression test done.

- Major oil leak: a timing chain ramp pin backed out of the case housing. Oil sloshed out of the hole where the pin belonged. The pin may be somewhere in the engine, or backed out & fell outside the engine. Does't appear to have enough room between the case cover and ramp to allow the pin to drop into the engine. Plan to replace the timing chain case.

-The previous owner seemed technically savvy (he trailered & dropped the car off with a Ford F-350 that he bought wrecked, fixed it up and converted to run on veggie oil - it was a pretty sweet rig, the exhaust made me want Micky D's fries...).

-Previous owner's rebuild included new P&C's (Mahle stock CR), new timing gear/chains, new rockers. Machine work included head R&R/valve job with new guides installed, cam/crank magnaflux inspect & polish. Receipts show a pretty thorough rebuild.
------------------------------

My intent for the rebuild
- Rebuild to confirm mechanically sound/performance upgrades for street & occasional DE
- JE 9.5 CR pistons/deglaze cylinders (plan to purchase)
- Cam regrind to increase low end torque (plan to call John D and WebCam for rec’s)
- PMO 46's (purchased)
- B&B 1 5/8" headers/exhaust (purchased)
- XDi single plug ignition (plan to buy)
- I put ~ 7k miles/year on my car (fair weather daily driver).
- Will be dropping it into my '83 SC (200k + on the old 3.0, gotta love it).

Photo is always a good thing:

[James Brown]

you forgot piece of mind. If i were to put all them goodies on, i would crack the case and make double sure that everything is perfect for the next 200,000 mile. Shouldn't cost that much more.

[911pcars]

Based on your documented history, this doesn't sound like an engine needing a rebuild. I suggest performing a compression test (leakdown optional), document the results, then go from there.

It seems the engine, if in a 30K mile condition, has good resale value. Low rpm issues sounds like a minor diagnosis/repair issue. You could sell it, then purchase a used engine that deserves a thorough rebuild. It sounds like you're planning to do that anyway. Apply the excess proceeds toward the rebuild, which will probably exceed your planned budget anyway.

However, if you really want to rebuild it, that's up to you.

Sherwood

[Gordo2]

Thanks for the input fella's - I've decided to go ahead and break the case open and inspect.

I measured the space between the chain ramp pin and front cover and it appears that the pin could have fallen into the motor. Will be more comfortable knowing its not rolling around somewhere in the case.

Gordo

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Gordo2

Thanks for the input fella's - I've decided to go ahead and break the case open and inspect.

I measured the space between the chain ramp pin and front cover and it appears that the pin could have fallen into the motor. Will be more comfortable knowing its not rolling around somewhere in the case.

Gordo

Chain ramp pin? The ramps are held in place by threaded bolts. Not the same thing?

[Gordo2]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Chain ramp pin? The ramps are held in place by threaded bolts. Not the same thing?

Correction to my previous post - I'm missing one of the chain ramp pins on the timing chain housing. The pins that you are thinking about are threaded to the main engine case for the main sprocket - not the one I am missing.

I started a new thread on the pin issue (with pics):

Timing Chain Housing - Repair or Replace Chain Ramp Pins

Also, will consider below recommendations on rod bolts

Thanks again,

Gordo

[304065]

ARP rod bolts. That is the #1 reason to split the case.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by 304065

ARP rod bolts. That is the #1 reason to split the case.

FWIW, when I rebuilt my 2 liter > 2.7 engine, I installed the con rods and pistons after the crankcase was assembled. If I could do that, then the procedure can be reversed - i.e. the con rod fasteners (as well as bearings) can be R&R'd with the crankcase assembled.

From all indications, the service life of the 3.2 bottom end is quite enviable, esp. if there are documents showing the mains were inspected, machined and parts replaced only a few thousand miles ago. If rod bolt replacement is the only motivation to split the crankcase, I'd skip the split and install the stronger rod fasteners. YMMV.

Chain ramp pins. Ah yes. the one ramp in each chain box. The missing retaining pin could be an issue for peace of mind. After stripping the engine down to the assembled crankcase, you can try gravity to help extract the wandering ramp pin out of one of the newly exposed crankcase openings. Play it by ear, then proceed with what's prudent and expeditious.

Sherwood

[304065]

True Sherwood, you can replace the rod bolts and rod bearings with the case together. Was it hard to do when you did it? I found that using the micrometer for the stretch method was a challenge even with the crank out of the case-- I suppose you would have to use the torque method?

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by 304065

True Sherwood, you can replace the rod bolts and rod bearings with the case together. Was it hard to do when you did it? I found that using the micrometer for the stretch method was a challenge even with the crank out of the case-- I suppose you would have to use the torque method?

I started with the crank, then assembled around it. I recall using Plastigage on the bare crank while on the bench to confirm oil clearance. Installing the con rod caps through the cylinder openings isn't a big deal - plenty of room. A long extension provides the needed access to torque the nuts.

Thereafter, assemble pistons onto the rods, with or w/o rings. Heat pistons for slightly easier pin installation. Don't forget the pin retaining circlips on each piston and the piston orientation (large dome depression on top), each cyl. too. One PP circlip can be pre-installed on the bench, just plan the best strategy to install the assemblies for each cylinder and to provide access for the 2nd clip. You'll need a "take-apart" ring compressor in order to slide each cylinder over its assembled piston/con rod. Pay attention and double-check. You don't want extra parts left over.

The above is just an overview. It helps to write down the procedure you're going to use, then review and follow it to minimize having to memorize, or backtracking and unnecessary dis-assembly/reassembly.

Sherwood