Engine management systems?

[crashmy911]

Why do so many tuners hate electromotive systems?

[crashmy911]

Know one has opinion on this? My tuner said something about resolution?

[HawgRyder]

I like the old points and coil myself....easy to troubleshoot...can be fixed at 2:00AM on the side of the road...and the only tool you need is a screwdriver...and maybe a dollar bill to clean the oil off the points.
But...as to electronic units...all of them have pros and cons.
The more they do (emissions/curve/RPM limiter/etc) the more you have to go wrong.
With all systems, heat is the enemy...cool them...insulate them from voltage spikes...ground them VERY well....and keep the fins or covers clean so that heat can be dissapated.
The location can be very important too...try to keep them out of the hot air of the engine compartment if possible.
Even the cheapest units can last for years if you use some common sense to start with.
Bob

[JJ 911SC]

Maybe its because they are not use to it? I thought the resolution is pretty good, 16 x 16 grid.

There is a tuner close to you that also sell Electromotive product. He told me 2 to 3 hours on the dyno should do it.

Kennedys Dyno Tune- Main Page

[Lapkritis]

Lower cost systems exist with more features... Megasquirt 3 or VEMS.

[safe]

I have good experiences by Emerald, ECUs & conversion kits

Relatively cheap even compared with MS or Vems and a lot less prone to problems...

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by safe

a lot less prone to problems...

That's a loaded statement. Explain further please. If you mean fewer features and outputs then sure, less prone to problems.

[safe]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

That's a loaded statement. Explain further please. If you mean fewer features and outputs then sure, less prone to problems.

It has all the features you need... Easy to use.

MS3-Pro Standalone Engine Management System by DIYAutoTune.com
MS3 = $1,200, even more money than I thought!!

[Lapkritis]

Emerald isn't even close to the same league features wise as MS3; the lists are tellingly different. The non-waterproof MS3 is $645!!! That said, the best ECU is the one your tuner is most familiar and comfortable with that meets your needs. If Emerald is supported by your local tuner and MS/VEMS isn't and you're not wanting to learn then Emerald is probably best suited for you.

[otto in norway]

I've got the Electromotive TEC3r, and I gotta say I like it.
It's got a good manual, so you actually get educated while you read. And that makes you able to get it set up properly and do troubleshooting as well. It's got all the functions I'll ever need.

The one thing I don't like, is that my particular model is not compatible with relatively new computers. I guess this is to be expected, now that this type (my TEC3r) is getting rather old. You need windows service pack2 for it to work. (on 32 bit)
On the other hand they are willing to upgrade it for you for a relatively fair price, so you can use the new WINTEC4 software.

From my experience with software/products like this, I don't think there is one system that is without some kind of shortcoming.

[safe]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Emerald isn't even close to the same league features wise as MS3; the lists are tellingly different.

What feature of MS is so indispensable that Emerald lack, the amazing 16x16 resolution?

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

If Emerald is supported by your local tuner and MS/VEMS isn't and you're not wanting to learn then Emerald is probably best suited for you.

Most tuners here won't touch a MS, to many cans of worms from the 95% MS users who hasn't got a clue.
And most dynooperators won't lend you dyno time to tune yourself.

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by safe

What feature of MS is so indispensable that Emerald lack, the amazing 16x16 resolution?

The table switching in the software makes the resolution far greater than 16x16... you can choose what the trigger is for the table switch such as manifold pressure. Many people will create a 16x16 fuel map for under 100kpa (all motor) and set the switching table switching to 100kpa+ (turbo) so the engine moves to another 16x16 fuel table when in boost. This gives resolution of double the 16x16 standard. Double. The resolution is insane. I-n-s-a-n-e. Looks like Emerald has an external toggle switch for table switching. Even if they have software enabled table switching I don't think it's important enough to make my top 5 features that Emerald lacks.

1) My favorite by far is the bluetooth, mobile device tuning capability. No cables necessary... and there is a smartphone app for gauges AND tuning in the Google store so you don't even need a freaking laptop anymore. You can tune with your cell phone. GPS enabled for tracking your laps if you're a racer... more features are constantly being added due to open-source development.

2) Individual cylinder trim percentage from the main fuel map. This allows you to tune on another level entirely. Many engines have "hot" or leaner cylinders than the rest - you can tune these to match the rest now. I use the bank trim control on my other v6 engine as the exhaust bank runs leaner than the front/intake bank.

3) Software enabled traction control.

4) Water-methanol injection programmable control.

5) Community support forums and free education.

6) Tunerstudio software/end user configurable GUI for gauges and tuning.
The list would be long so I'll quit there.

Most tuners here won't touch a MS, to many cans of worms from the 95% MS users who hasn't got a clue.
And most dynooperators won't lend you dyno time to tune yourself.

I tune myself although there are many competent tuners who will gladly tune the MS (also has an auto-tune feature). For those that have a clue this is the best bang for the buck anywhere.

[Lapkritis]

Here's the app for your smartphone... just look at it. This is for your cellphone and it's free. $0 .

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.msdroid

msDroid :: MegaSquirt configuration and log recorder / viewer for Android

It will overlap your datalog with google maps. Mind blown yet?

[Daugaard]

Hi.

I run elektromotive tech3 on my corvette BB and now MS.v3 on my porsche 3,6.
It's amazing so easy, eks. I can calibrate my TPS on the laptop that's not posible with tech3.

+1 to MS

Daugaard

[otto in norway]

Daugaard,
What do you mean?
One of the basic settings are just that; Calibrate TPS sensor voltages. (You set WOT position and idle position, and that's all it needs to know)

[TimT]

Why do so many tuners hate electromotive systems?

Possibly because of memories of working with the early Tec systems..

The early Tec1s had nice hardware features, but the software was extremely hard to use...and there was very little support from the Mfg.

Note that Tec lacked tune on the fly features 12 or so years ago..It was pain in the ass to tune.....kill the engine..... key on, load new maps, start, run on dyno.... crap the change was wrong.. change "Time on Gamma"(TOG) or some other cryptically named table and hope you were working in the right direction...

Did I mention tech support was lacking..

Note that during the same period we worked with the Tec1s the Haltechs of the same era allowed tuning and saving on the fly....

I have not worked with any of the later Electromotive systems so have no comments inre that..

Apparently other tuners have memories the Tec series of old...

[Raceboy]

In recent years VEMS has evolved from a half finished product to a fully usable (in the straightest term, all features etc). Show me ECu that can easily run PWM cam control on both intake and exhaust cams, have GPS logging, fully sequential 8cyl engine support (yes, with COP's), dual WBo2 on board, two COM ports (for example GPS receiver) etc for that kind of price?
It is still the same hardware, just the software has taken a major leap.
I just installed a boost knob on a friends car, it is a potentiometer that feeds input on ECU and allowing the boost adjustment all the way from 0.4 bar to 1.7 bar on his BMW M30B35. dual chamber wg control, just works.
Fully assembled VEMS costs ~600 euros and they use the same connectors as Autronic, Motec etc. Nothing more to say.

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by Raceboy

In recent years VEMS has evolved from a half finished product to a fully usable (in the straightest term, all features etc). Show me ECu that can easily run PWM cam control on both intake and exhaust cams, have GPS logging, fully sequential 8cyl engine support (yes, with COP's), dual WBo2 on board, two COM ports (for example GPS receiver) etc for that kind of price?
It is still the same hardware, just the software has taken a major leap.
I just installed a boost knob on a friends car, it is a potentiometer that feeds input on ECU and allowing the boost adjustment all the way from 0.4 bar to 1.7 bar on his BMW M30B35. dual chamber wg control, just works.
Fully assembled VEMS costs ~600 euros and they use the same connectors as Autronic, Motec etc. Nothing more to say.

There is more to say...

Jason at VEMS is continually developing plug and play applications. VEMS is grafting the matching OEM style connector to their ecu so you don't have to change the engine harness even. Those guys know what they're doing.

[mamut]

Motec baby, Motec, and called quits.,....but search deep on your pocket, people with crabs on their pockets need not apply!!!!
Stef.