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-   -   3.2l rebuild, the quest for more power (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/819269-3-2l-rebuild-quest-more-power.html)

911pcars 07-13-2014 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael lang (Post 8162319)
I understand, but if I take it apart a certain way then I'm certain to put it back together a certain way. Then ideally, it will start and run when it's back together.

I have got to find someone here in the Washington DC area that I can go to for ultrasonic cleaning. My little makeshift parts bin does a good of cleaning the oil, grime & dirt but it's alot of work. I must have scrubbed for a couple of hours today and I feel like the fan housing and front cam covers still are not clean eventhough I don't get any grease on my hands when I handle them now.

You also need to confirm the clearances are to spec before putting them together the same way they came apart.... unless you D&A a just rebuilt engine.

Thus, here is my simplified classification of labor when rebuilding anything:
a) Disassembly and organization
b) Cleaning
c) Inspection (visual and measurement)
d) Reassembly

Skipping steps or minimizing the importance of one over another decreases the odds of a successful build.

MHO,
Sherwood

michael lang 07-17-2014 12:09 PM

This is where I am now and cannot for the life of me figure how to get this thing off. Am I missing some hidden bolt? Can anyone make any suggestions?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/se9ygypy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/yny3yga4.jpg

tharbert 07-17-2014 12:43 PM

Are you saying the pressure plate is stuck or that you just can't get it past the trans studs?

michael lang 07-17-2014 11:22 PM

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The pressure plate will not budge. I have no idea what to do to get it off.

safe 07-17-2014 11:50 PM

If all 9 perimiter bolts have been removed, it should come off. Hit it with a hammer, the PP and FW might have gotten stuck to the clutch disk.

911pcars 07-18-2014 12:14 AM

The pressure plate bolts attach the timing ring gear and the pressure plate onto the flywheel. The clutch disc is between. Sounds like stiction is holding the parts together. Using a dead blow hammer or equivalent, remove the timing ring gear from the pressure plate. The rest should fall off.

If this is the first time doing this, are you using any reference materials or are you "winging it"? The forum is great, but you can save time by having source materials at your workbench while you wait for a response from this forum.

Suggest downloading the parts manual so you can see the relationship between the various engine components.
Porsche Original Parts Catalogue - Parts and Diagnostic Information - Porsche Service - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

michael lang 07-18-2014 11:42 PM

Thanks Sherwood, I've had that file downloaded in my desktop computer for a number of years. In addition to this forum and the Internet my reference materials are the Bentley manual and Wayne's engine rebuild book. Both have been extremely valuable pieces of material and I dont think I would have gotten this far without them. The downside to those books is they really don't talk about how to overcome challenges which make this forum such an invaluable resource. These threads are all about the experiences of guys stories of how they got through a set back or how they figured out a way to make it work.

michael lang 07-19-2014 01:54 AM

The tedious task continues...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/ve7e6yhy.jpg

ChrisP911 07-20-2014 04:34 AM

Cool build. I would also split the case and do the rebuild.

What does it cost for twin plugging the heads?

maclaren65 07-22-2014 08:55 PM

I love your project! I wish I had time to do the same for my '87 3.2.

What is a ballpark estimate of paying a shop to do a rebuild of a 3.2 vs upgrading to a 3.4? Thanks.

michael lang 07-26-2014 03:55 AM

ChrisP, I decided against splitting the case because I really haven't seen a need for it. If as I get the heads off I find there is an unavoidable problem that I need to address then I may have no choice.

maclaren, I did look into having a shop do a rebuild for me. The estimate was $10-12k depending on what I ultimately decided on exhaust and intake mods like Extrude Hone. I only have so much to spend and with the chassis at the body shop I decided it was time for me to pony up and join the club of tear down and reassembly. At least to my meager skills what I'm doing is challenging enough but as I get more experience and have more time I will improve and take on other mechanical challenges with these cars.

Getting the left cam tower off has been frustrating to say the least, Porsche does such a great job in putting these cars together I find the hardest part to any project I take on with my car is taking the damn thing apart. I'm almost there, I have yet to get the #3 rocker arm out on the exhaust side. I have been plugging away at it on and off periodically over the last couple of days. Hitting with brake clean and soaking it with PB Blaster to try and loosen it. The bolt is so tight I'm afraid of rounding the head and then not being able to do anything. The plan is one more day of soaking and then go at it hard with heat. Hopefully that will be enough to finesse it out, then I can get the heads off to the machine shop.

michael lang 07-26-2014 04:28 AM

So in the meantime I decided to go after the injectors so I could send them out for reconditioning

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/a6unyny5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/asu6yruz.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/ade6e3an.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/u4yha5a2.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/4upemuru.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/agaqa6ud.jpg

maclaren65 07-28-2014 08:53 PM

Michael: Thanks for answering my question. My '87 Carrera coupe runs strong, but is starting to burn a bit of oil and smoke a little at 130k. I'll keep saving for the rebuild. I look forward to following the progress on your project. :) Cheers. -- Richard

jager911 07-30-2014 07:04 AM

Great job so far, Michael. I considered selling my car in the search for more power (e.g. GT3) then changed my mind to go for a performance rebuild this winter. My engine is not smoking or lacking in power, I just want more to keep up on the track. I will be doing it myself using new Mahle 10.3:1 Euro Ps&Cs, 993 or 964 cams, keeping Motronic, single plug. Goal is 240hp with custom chip and headers. Hopefully, I can do this for < $10k, with larger valves, some head work, stiffer springs and ARP rod bolts. I will be splitting the case to replace the bearings, balance the rods etc. You're that far, you should re-consider. You don't want to do it twice, down the road.

grippymonkey 07-30-2014 03:18 PM

Nice! Really hoping to get to my 3.2l build one of these days. I cannot handle the leaks anymore!

michael lang 08-02-2014 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jager911 (Post 8189515)
You're that far, you should re-consider. You don't want to do it twice, down the road.

I can't tell you how much much I've considered and reconsidered and then reconsidered this. I've thought about it so much I've sat there in front of my engine on the stand and just stared at it trying to decide if I want to take that plunge. I'm already nervous enough about putting it back together wrong.

I've been speaking with the machine shop and the conversation led to talking about springs. So earlier this week I contacted EBS Racing and got a quote for racing springs, retainers, seats and the new style ARP fasterners with the trick little allen head tips for the exhaust manifold (that's got to be one of the coolest inventions ever). I understand them to be stiffer springs, but how much stiffer? What would the benefits be of having them installed? I'm not opposed to spending the extra if there is real benefit or value in doing the upgrade.

Speaking of upgrade, I think it's time I make a decision on which exhaust to go with. The heads will be back from the machine shop and the injectors will be back and then it will be time to get everything back together. I've been thinking that I want an exhaust that will compliment the 964 cams and machine work that is being done so in all honesty the Rarelyl8 headers in my mind are the most logical choice. But it's gets cold in Mar/Apr and Oct/Nov at Summit Point and I'm not willing to compromise on having heat so going with SSIs make the most sense. I'm well aware that Brian builds a pipe with heat but from the various pics I've seen in the forum the heater boxes look very small and most of the comments have indicated the fit & finish is not that great. Truth be told, I really want the Rarelyl8 headers but if it means not having adequate heat, then they're not for me. Can anyone or does anyone have any experiences they can share about the heat exchangers with the Rarelyl8 headers? Does it seem like they produce enough heat? Do the heater boxes fit tight on the header pipes? The early version heater boxes appeared to have large gaps and fit very loosely. After having had some use, have the heater boxes shaken loose and rattle a lot like a failing catalytic converter? If I were top go with SSIs, how hard is back dating the heat? It looks like I need to add some hosing and cut another hole in the engine tin. Is that not correct?

Thanks for all the comments and encouragement, if it wasn't for this board, I very seriously doubt I would have gotten as far as I have. I really do appreciate all the guidance I've received over the years.

fred cook 08-02-2014 02:53 AM

Exhaust.........
 
When I built the 3.3SS engine for my SC, I used the 964 cams, Carrera heads and SSI exhausts. So far, I haven't noticed any falling off of power at higher rpms. I have the XDi ignition interrupter set at 7500 rpms but haven't pushed the engine that high yet. I also did the heat backdate and find that the car makes plenty of heat without the blower motor. I haven't had my engine on a dyno yet, but it is obviously making a good bit more hp than before. Good luck!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1406976795.jpg

JJ 911SC 08-02-2014 03:11 AM

The heat backing is quite easy. The best hose to use is the 2.5" scent: SCEET AIRCRAFT DUCTING from Aircraft Spruce

If you are going this way with the SSIs, you'll need to change the crossover oil line.

911pcars 08-02-2014 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred cook (Post 8194730)
When I built the 3.3SS engine for my SC, I used the 964 cams, Carrera heads and SSI exhausts. So far, I haven't noticed any falling off of power at higher rpms. I have the XDi ignition interrupter set at 7500 rpms but haven't pushed the engine that high yet. I also did the heat backdate and find that the car makes plenty of heat without the blower motor. I haven't had my engine on a dyno yet, but it is obviously making a good bit more hp than before. Good luck!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1406976795.jpg

Not sure anyone can notice a loss of power that was never potentially there in the first place unless it was….. there. Just saying.

Sherwood

fred cook 08-02-2014 06:18 PM

My Point...........
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 911pcars (Post 8195046)
Not sure anyone can notice a loss of power that was never potentially there in the first place unless it was….. there. Just saying.

Sherwood

The point I was making was that the SSI exhausts will work well with the 964 cams. What was your point? Not sure you know what you are talking about.... just saying!
(I hate that expression!).


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