993 Engine Remove/Install Time

[earossi]

I've had six 911's over the years, and pulling the power train from the early cars was straightforward and relatively easy. Working off jack stands and a hydraulic jack, I could usually pull the engine/tranny train from one of these cars in 6 to 7 hours. Much of that time was simply used in getting the car up on stands and prepped for my work.

Then I bought my current 993. I've pulled the power train one time. And, even though I now have a four post lift, the time to get the engine onto a work table was close to 16 hours. Going back was faster (no learning curve), but still took about 10 hours.

I've been told that this is very slow time. So, I am asking for ways to shorten the time AND effort. The four post lift presented its own set of problems, but ease of wrenching on the engine is definitely easier than had I been working off the ground on my back.

Particular "issues" for me, coming apart and going together, were interference from the axles, disassembly of the engine "frame" and suspension, and installing the throttle cable (which is on the rear of the engine).

So, what can I do differently to ease this task? And, as an "amateur" wrencher...what is a reasonable target time to remove or install the engine?

[earossi]

Anyone have any comments?

[Amstaff]

It's always faster pulling it than installing it.

[earossi]

Originally Posted by Amstaff

It's always faster pulling it than installing it.

Interesting. I have always seen it slower to pull than to install, if for no other reason than the learning curve occurs on the pull and doesn't slow you down on the install. And, usually, going back together is an engine that is not dirty or leaking oil which can slow you down. I also tend to run into "mysteries" during the pull of an engine. By the time the engine is ready to go back in the car, I have solved or resolved the mysteries. I'm talking about things like fasteners or couplings that are difficult to remove for a number of mechanical reasons.

But, that is the viewpoint of a hobbiest who does not do this for a living. Those that do it for a living don't have a learning curve to go through, and don't care how quickly they pull things apart.....they know that going back together properly is really what matters. So, I can see your logic......if only I were a professional, which I am not.

[Amstaff]

i find it easier to pull because there is nothing to line up, no shifter linkage to mess with, no worries about motor or tranny mounts. Install you have to make sure the engine is nice and level to get all of the mount bolts in, shift linkage to mess with, speedometer cable that can be tough to tighten up once the tranny is installed.

When you pull it as you lower it and pull it back it just drops out (unless you missed disconnecting something).

[jhg41977]

It would really help if we knew how you went about removing the engine and transmission. Did you follow a DIY or a shop manual? Im not certain about the time it took to drop mine but I would guess I could have my engine and transmission on the floor in 6 hours or so without working too hard. Going back in isnt too much different on time.

I used a mid rise lift, a ATV jack and no power tools. I disconnected the axle shafts, shift linkage, oil lines and wiring. Lower the car a bit and set the ATV jack under the engine (I used a home made deck that went on the ATV jack to better support the engine and transmission) Once the weight is on the ATV jack, I removed the engine crossmember bolts & the transmission cross member bolts. Then I slowly raised the car off the engine and transmission. An inch or two then check to see if I missed anything, then another inch or two. Once I could see that nothing was catching, I lowered the atv jack, raised the car and pilled the atv jack out from under the car.

Note that I did not mention all the minor things, disconnect battery, drain oil, remove rear decklid (I did leave the bumper on) etc. The axle shafts require some wiggling to get the transmission by. At some point I have to pull the engine and transmission towards the rear of the car to separate the transmission and central tube.

I used the factory manual set for the procedure.

[earossi]

Guys, Im loving this discussion! I did not have a set of shop manuals when I pulled the 993 power train. Since I had pulled 911 engines out of earlier vintage cars, I did not feel that was a particular handicap.

What I did refer to were the several detailed write-ups on Rennlist devoted to pulling the engine. IIRC, there are write-ups on PCA-Workshop and a writeup by "Toga". I recognized the engine pull to be similar to my other experience, except for the fact that there were a lot more accessories involved, more complex engine management systems, and there is the more complex rear suspension in the 993 versus the older 911's I had worked on.

So, I methodically disconnected everything and tagged every vacuum or electrical connection I broke. I took lots of pictures. All of that took time. The one issue that was an impediment both on removal and on installation......was interference from the half shaft on the driver's side of the car. I finally enlisted the help of a friend, who, while holding a rope attached to the interfering half shaft was able to move the shaft so that the engine would drop straight down.

On prior cars, I was able to remove the axles since they were bolted in on both ends. On the 993, the stub shaft on the outboard end of the axles is bolted into the trailing arm. Looks like a lot of work and pain to remove the axle. So, I struggled with the interference issue.

Having removed and installed the power train once now, I believe that my time to remove it would drop substantially. Almost all electrical connections are color coded, so they are pretty much idiot proof (unless you're color blind).

And, there was an unforeseen obstacle of my own making in the removal/installation procedure. I have a four post lift that the car was sitting on. My intent was to position a work table between the ramps, drop the car down until the power train was sitting on the table, then disconnect the train from the car, and simply lift the car off the power train. As luck would have it, the engine is wider than the distance between the ramps! Big oversight! So, I removed the mufflers before dropping the engine. And, bad luck again.......the engine package, without mufflers, was still about 2 inches wider than the space between the ramps. so, I had to remove the bracket that mounts the mufflers. Once done, the engine dropped down through the ramps.

If I ever purchase another lift, it will be a two poster!

At any rate, thanks for the feedback. With my learning curve out of the way, and using a two post lift, I think that the next time would probably half the time required.