So it begins.... 3.2 ---> 3.3 with megasquirt and EDIS

[drl911]

Updated thread title - megasquirt and LS2 Coils

Step 1 - Just spent the last few weeks replacing the stock 3.2 pistons/cylinders on the supercharger'd Carrera with 3.3 pistons/cylinders from '92 turbo. I needed to reduce the compression so boost can safely go higher. Mechanically engine is re-assembled.

Step 2 - Convert to megasquirt and EDIS ignition. So far I have installed Clewett 36-1 crank wheel, VR sensor holder, distributor plug, converted to TPS on throttle body, sourced EDIS module/wiring from junk yard, purchased MS3-pro (overkill I know, but wanted their harness and ALL the potential features).

I have read Tippy's megasquirt/EDIS thread several times, and others, but have some questions.....

First round of questions:
1 - Will my stock 3.2 injectors support 12 psi of boost?

2 - Should I use the EDIS coil or source something different? Pros / cons?

3 - MS3-pro supports knock sensors so I want to add this feature. What knock sensors to use? How/where to connect to engine?

Thanks in advance!
Dan

[Tippy]

HAHA, I was a train wreck installing mine. Super condensed time frame to finish, hence haste. There are better threads out there I bet.

1. No, there's just not enough bandwidth for stock injectors that are around 24lb IIRC.

New injectors are cheap (paid $300 for my Deka 80lb'ers off eBay) and spray many times better than your current. You really need a modern high Z injector.

60lb probably would be fine on standard fuel pressure, just use multiple online injector calculators to figure what you need.

2. I'd just use the EDIS coil as its proven OEM quality piece and fires my plugs fine at 1.4 bar of boost. My coil is from the 90's and works just fine.

3. Search the 930/supercharging forum for that info. Should be able to discern from there.

[drl911]

I now see MS does not directly like the stock low impedance injectors anyway.

Do these look like good match Accel 150630 30lb/hr high impedance for 325hp?

[drl911]

Tippy,

I was typing while you posted!

Wow 60 lb'ers, I'll keep looking

Thanks

[Dltjaden]

The MS3-Pro will interface directly to the crankshaft VR sensor. It will also provide Up to eight logic level ignition outputs. These outputs can drive an ignition coil pack that has internal "igniters" that utilize logic level inputs. DIYAutotune sells one here: IGN-6 Coil Pack DIYAutoTune.com. You can also use 6 LS-x coils which is what I have used for redundancy. That completely eliminates all of the EDIS system, eliminates it as a failure point, simplifies the wiring and provides MS3 complete control of the ignition.

Search here and you will find a number of threads concerning knock sensor locations.

Darryl

[drl911]

Originally Posted by Dltjaden

The MS3-Pro will interface directly to the crankshaft VR sensor. It will also provide Up to eight logic level ignition outputs. These outputs can drive an ignition coil pack that has internal "igniters" that utilize logic level inputs. DIYAutotune sells one here: IGN-6 Coil Pack DIYAutoTune.com. You can also use 6 LS-x coils which is what I have used for redundancy. That completely eliminates all of the EDIS system, eliminates it as a failure point, simplifies the wiring and provides MS3 complete control of the ignition.

Search here and you will find a number of threads concerning knock sensor locations.

Darryl

Wow, I didn't realize that. So just to confirm, I can wire the MS3-Pro directly to that 6 coil pack and connect the plug wires accordingly? Very clean, indeed!

Thanks,
Dan

[Dltjaden]

Hi Dan,
Well....I stuck my foot in my mouth on this part from DIYAutotune. With a quick look I thought they were logic level driven (meaning very low current 5 volt signal level). This is how the LS2 coils are driven and they can be wired directly to the MS3-Pro. The only disadvantage of using the LS2 coils is that you need 6 coils. This is what I did.

The other option is using a logic level coil on plug (COP) but since I don't have any experience trying to fit any of these on a Porsche engine with the spark plug located deep in the valve cover I can't offer any specific option.

I would still go with the 6 LS2 coils mounted on an aluminum bracket, three to an engine side, with nice short plug wires compared to a single mounting location.

Darryl

[drl911]

Thanks for the quick clarification. I also confirmed myself.

I found new LS2 coils on ebay for $19 each

[drl911]

Originally Posted by Tippy

60lb probably would be fine on standard fuel pressure, just use multiple online injector calculators to figure what you need.

I ordered Siemens Deka 60 lbs injectors for $250.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by drl911

I ordered Siemens Deka 60 lbs injectors for $250.

There you go! I idle 80lb'ers nicely on MSII, so 60's should be sooooooo easy to tune on MSPro.

You'll be happy you did, because you'll have room to grow if you choose so.

[drl911]

Originally Posted by Dltjaden

I would still go with the 6 LS2 coils mounted on an aluminum bracket, three to an engine side, with nice short plug wires compared to a single mounting location.

Darryl

What would you use for plug wires in that arrangement?

[Dltjaden]

I made up my own plug wires. The easiest way to do this would be to start with a set for your for your engine and then cut to length as needed and LS2 coil terminals and boots crimped onto the cut end of each wire. An example here: MSD Replacement Boots and Terminals 3304 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

You will also need a pigtail connector for each coil. For example: http://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Connector-Wiring-Harness-Pigtail/dp/B0140628OA

[drl911]

Got it, thanks for the details and links. I am still considering the EDIS just because I have everything (no additional expense), but attracted to MS3-pro being truly standalone with the LS2 coils wired straight in.

For complete due diligence, anyone have the latest intel of using COP with MS3-pro? Options for best fitment? I have read older posts talking about using motorcycle COP packs with success.

Thanks,
Dan

[Dltjaden]

I would talk to DIYAutotune about COPs that work with the MS3-Pro. I know that there are some options including GM Ecotec coils (2007+), some Toyota coils and some VAG coils but I don't have any direct experience.

The forums on the msextra web site can be very helpful: Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA) • Index page

[Dltjaden]

Here's a thread concerning the Toyota COPs: Toyota Coilpack info thread

[drl911]

I'm going to check a few of the COP you mention at the local parts store to see how close anything matches dimensionally.

Thanks!

[Dltjaden]

Dan,
I had a few minutes to look up some info on the Ford EDIS system. I new this was an older technology but I didn't realize that Ford last used the 6 cylinder version for the 1997 model year. That makes it 18 years old. As a plus it is a well known working solution, as a minus it adds an additional failure point. It's limp-home mode does not provide any redundancy when coupled with an MS3 ecu since if the MS3 fails you won't have any fuel.K

I was attracted to the LS2 coils because even if a single coil failed I could easily limp home with the remaining ignition coils.
Darryl

[drl911]

Thanks, Darryl.

Depending on my ambition and ditching the EDIS path, I feel that I should go full in to COP assuming something physically fits. If not, the LS2's get high marks from my reading today.

[drl911]

Question for Tippy -

Did you end up wiring your injectors as suggested in your thread?

"1,2,6 on Bank 1 and 4,3,5 on Bank 2. Then run "alternating" injector sequence."

MS3pro can do the following so I may set up this way :

"Semi-Sequential - Injects once every rotation, firing injectors in pairs. The injectors are
timed, so you can set the angle at which they fire. Injectors should be wired in the same
manner they would be wired for fully sequential injection."

Thoughts anyone?

[Tippy]

I did not and fully regret it. It wouldn't be hard to fix since it's down now and intake removed.

Hmm, maybe I'll tackle sometime.

I would definitely run sequential. If I could, I would. Find a damaged dizzy and use it for a cam trigger.

I can't express how much better idle and revving will be with sequential.