Pelican Parts Forums - 1985 3.2L Rebuild

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)

- 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/)

- - 1985 3.2L Rebuild (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/950585-1985-3-2l-rebuild.html)

Fan Shroud Cracked

Is it worthwhile getting a magnesium welding guy to fix it up... or just bite the bullet and buy a new aluminum one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke (Post 9558844)

Stock rod bolts are fine with a completely stock motor operated on the street. I'm a bit surprised you aren't using ARP (or Raceware, same as your head studs) rod bolts, both of which are made of much higher strength steel than the stock Porsche bolts.

Not disagreeing with you, but are interested how you come to this opinion. Do you have any technical data showing that the stock material is a lower grade than what ARP use?

Or is the choice purely based upon marketing? I agree with you that the stock Rod bolts and nuts are a good choice when building a stock engine. Same for the head studs now, or the use of the later all thread types.

Certainly not questioning the ability of ARP or Raceware, but questioning why these are the go to when maybe the stock parts are good enough for a stock rebuild. The choice of any part should be on its merit and the use, not on marketing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m42racer (Post 9593897)

Two facts to consider. ARP can be reused. Re-torqued and used for repeated rebuilds. Stock bolts, are one time. Torque them once and that is it.
The ARP bolts take a higher torque value compared to the stock bolts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackrash (Post 9593912)

Understood. But is that the reason why ARP or any other aftermarket fastener is used over the OEM part, for a stock build. I would think most here hope that the rebuild they take on is the last one for many years.

I find no issue with buying good parts even adding some safety into mix, but often many parts are purchased when the OEM would be ok.

I think the aftermarket pushes their parts regardless of the use and the customer buys into this, literally.

M42 - there is a guy - Chris Seven - who contributes from time to time here. He has an engineer's understanding of metallurgy and much else, and could tell you the type of steel Porsche used for the rod bolts for our now older cars and its strength. ARP and Raceware cite the steel type and the tensile strengths of their stuff, and also that of stock - or at least one of them did at one time. Stock is something like 100,000 psi, and the others around 200,000? Maybe not 2X, but significantly higher.
Modified motors, especially if for a car which sees the track, tend to get torn down more often than pure street cars, and for that there is a cost savings from being able to reuse the bolts if they measure out. But mainly it is the peace of mind because they are being asked to do more than Porsche originally designed them to do.

I think the head studs may be less of an issue if what you put in is up to the task, be it stronger aftermarket steel, or what Porsche has eventually worked out. Studs didn't pull because their steel was not strong enough, and my understanding is that they snapped because of issues other than simply not having enough tensile strength. I suspect most everyone reuses their head studs if they were the right stuff to start with and show no mechanical damage. If a stud were actually stretched beyond its elastic limit, the nut would promptly work its way off and your attention would focus on why.

Henry Schmidt, though not an engineer, could give chapter and verse on this kind of thing based on his extensive study and experience in manufacturing head studs, and I bet he has the rod bolt part down cold too. He sells stuff, but BS or puffery is not in his nature.

No question about the strength of ARP or other aftermarket parts.

My observation is reading posts, when these older engines are being rebuilt in stock form, the go to parts are often the aftermarket when the stock parts would be ok. No question the aftermarket are often superior, and if the builder wants to use these then great, but does a stock 3.2L rebuild need anything more than OEM parts if used as designed?

Stopped in this afternoon to check the progress. He was busy doing valve clearances etc. goes over it three times.

Dropped off 13 liters of Joe Gibbs Racing Driven 15w50 break in oil.

Fun times!

Well? How did it go?

So far so good.
Poured in the Joe Gibbs Driven Break In 15w-50. Ran it for a bit.
All good! Drained it.
Poured in the Joe Gibbs Driven Conventional 15w-50. Drove it to get new tires and wheel alignment. Put 150 miles on it. All good.
Drained it.
One more oil change Joe Gibbs Driven Conventional 15w-50. Will use this for the remainder of the summer.

End of summer will switch over the Joe Gibbs DT50 - Synthetic 15w-50 oil.

Some things that need some tweaking.

Passenger side chain tensioner oil line. One little drip. Thinking it is a washer at the fitting behind the AC.

Still need to hook up heating system, need to weld the pipe up from the blower.

Also need to research my DME.

I imported this car from California into Canada. It had the Smog decal on it etc. As it is a RoW "ZZZ" car.

So I am guessing the "Euro" DME was modified to have to facilitate the Cat etc.

I have now gone to SSI with Mille Miglia muffler, NO CAT.

Driving this is night and day. When I imported it... I bought basically sight unseen. I had a PPI done on it, but still never saw it or drove it in person.

Bought it with 200,000 miles on it. Only put 5000 miles on it over 7 years. It leaked lots and then it was going onto the exhaust making it a nuisance. Basically a mosquito fogger.

So going from improperly sized bald tires... half of the tread was steel belt. Wheel alignment... engine rebuild etc... new clutch... its like driving a new car.

I could have probably done without the SSI's, I think I am going to have a little bit of work getting this perfect, figuring out DME, no more 02 sensor, no more CAT... If anyone has any suggestions... feel free to help out!

Now... lots of people ask... whats something like this cost... in US dollar terms... I will try and break it down.

TOTAL $6745 USD

$1800 SSI and Muffler
($300) sold old heat exchangers and CAT
$3500 All parts to rebuild the motor.
$955 - Machine shop work - Valves, valve guides, flywheel, clean engine case, etc
$320 - Tires - Hankook Ventus V2
($175) mail in rebates
$200 Mount and Balance and alignment
$445 Oil - 40 litres

$3500 Labour to rebuild the motor, 3 oil changes, take out engine, put it back in, modify oil line due to SSI and wide body etc, install stainless brake lines, bleed brakes etc, fix fuel line leak at the pump, inlcuding any follow up service to make sure it is running perfectly...

That is not bad at all. Good Job!

Maybe I missed it, but how did you get the case so clean ("shiny" as you put it). Looks brand new!

.
.
.
DME = call Steve Wong in California - 911chips -

SWChips.com - Performance Chip Tuning for Porsche

Regards,

I don't post much on Pelican... but I was going through some old posts and saw this one. 31 month follow up. Well I havent done much to the car. It is back at my mechanic to finally deal with a couple of minor drips. Never got around to it because I wanted to drive the car. Still need to modify the heat exchanger pipe too. And check into my heater/defrost controls. Wasnt working... dont know if it was wiring or something else. But the car is in his hands to deal with the drips... when I get it back in the spring, I will tackle some of the other stuff.

TO DO LIST.

Ordered Porsche PPS - Get some background on my car.

Car is with my engine rebuilder to deal with the drips.

Run heater hose for the heater system.

Figure out AC and Heater blower fan. (Dash controls and fan work)

Clean car.

question, Looks like he used gasket sealant on the cylinder bases. Is this normal? Thought there was a copper gasket there (or is that earlier models?)

Thanks

Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmcfaul (Post 10721388)

question, Looks like he used gasket sealant on the cylinder bases. Is this normal? Thought there was a copper gasket there (or is that earlier models?)

Thanks

Chris

Hey Chris. Not sure. Mechanically the rebuild is solid. Runs perfectly other than the drip. Hoping it is only one drip. But either way. He is on the hook to make it perfect.

Sealant on cylinder base gasket is not a bad idea. Some (like me) use a really thin smear of Curil T.

Hope the drip is something simple.