964 bolt on upgrades

[Joe Bob]

Yes I did a search but could someone point me to the definitive upgrade thread? I see a lot of opinions but not not much in the legitimate BTDT school of thought....

TIA

JB

[Jeff Alton]

Are you thinking exhaust? RS Pulley? LWF? or ???

[Joe Bob]

Intake, cams.....no exhaust beyond my 993 HEs.

[Catorce]

Are you basically talking about not splitting the case? If so, the obvious choices are head work, cams, and screwing with the DME or going with a standalone. I can't imagine what else could be done with the motor beyond that.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

I'd start with a performance chip for your ECU.
This along with headers, high flow air filter and a lightweight pulley along with some race fuel is about the 1st level.
After that the $ky is the limit.

[Joe Bob]

I have a SW chip on a 91 motor. 993 HEs, sport cat and no muffler.....strong runner, 16/25 mpg, no AC or smog pump. 915 with WEVO IM Plate and shifter and gate.

I am looking to follow a thread on ITBs, cam selection vs just pulling my FI and throwing on some 46 PMOs.

I have done mods on smaller bore motors so I know the basics, looking for specific mods on the 964 power plant.

[mikedsilva]

over 35000 posts?
geez... how?

[smokintr6]

I'd say you're basically done unless you want to go forced induction. It's all incremental increase from here, mostly at the expense of drivability. I had a stock 3.6 conversion on a G body car, decided to fiddle with it, ended up with cams, ITBs, and head work..... 300 RWHP was fun, but it wasn't enjoyable for day to day driving. I have since sold that engine and bought another stock 3.6. I would say leave it alone, or add a turbo.

[Joe Bob]

I have always on my former projects stayed primarily with stock displacement for longevity, or I should say stopped bumping it up after realizing that as you said driveability and such suffers when you do.....since I'm now 60 years old now, I don't do AX and DEs much anymore. Street performance is my goal AND longevity.

I'm simply looking for more kick in the butt HP with a change in intake and such. I've seen PMO ITBs, carb and cam conversions.....but looking for documented gains with minimal fuss. The current motor has low miles and don't care to futz with the bottom end. It's fine the way it is but always looking for more.

If bolt on accoutrements aren't worth it, I am not afraid of another engine swap. I originally swapped in the 3.6 and sold my euro 3.0 due to low octane (91) gas availability in CA and fargin' alcohol additives being the only fuel I could by w/o breaking the bank with race fuel.

So, costs and a proven way to do so or simply slam in a turbo'd later MY engine. But I've owned early non inter-cooled engine and wasn't impressed. The lag sucked. The low end grunt of a 3.6 was a better option at the time. It did kill my 915 and I had to beef that up. WEVO and I have a good relationship. Still it is limited and I rarely use 1st gear.

As to my post count. I am one of the first who joined this forum and sold a lot of graphics, parts and cars. So it adds up. My join up date shows 1999 but I was here prior to that. Wayne did a change and then added new sign ins (screen names as opposed to gusts) and wiped out prior posts. On other lists in this BBS you'll find others with a higher count. Post whores in off topic politics and the biggest contenders for the title.

I also helped start up a few 914 websites where I had a stranglehold on most of the used CA 914 market when I had a dealers license for sales and export to Europe.

I had a jump on the ads and got the cars before most people knew the car was for sale. Most of the time I had the ride sold before I got home with my truck and trailer.

My suspension, wheels and whatever are fine for the street. Another 20% gain in HP would be fine for this tub. If I am maxed out on what can be done, I'll stay where I am.

[smokintr6]

Contacting Steve Weiner, rennsport systems, would be my first stop if I was you. I think he's gotten some pretty impressive numbers out of the cars. If you can limit the damage to cams, exhaust work, and a tune, you might come out pretty good. I believe steve is using Motec, so his tunes are not inexpensive, but if you spend some time talking to him on the phone, you'll know he knows his stuff.

[Joe Bob]

He's in the San Diego area, right? I'm in the process of moving down there. I guess I could stop by, buy him lunch and pick his brain....

Ooopsie, never mind....Oregon. I'll be up there next month.

BTW, what am I looking at, HP and costs? 3-5K?

[smokintr6]

I honestly don't remember, but I know if I had the budget I would have taken all of his suggestions.

[Joe Bob]

Could you give me an idea of what you did? Impressions and other anecdotes? Anything you would have done differently based on your results?

[smokintr6]

I had 3.8RSR heads and cams with ITBs. It was actually relatively streetable as far as things go, but the performance under 4k suffered some. The biggest trouble i had was finding an exhaust that would flow enough to let the cams work, but was quiet enough to enjoy driving. Tried a couple different custom mufflers with headers, and settled on a B&B muffler, which was a street unit. The car ran really well, but the resonance was so annoying that I lost the enjoyment of getting in and going anywhere. It was fun as hell on a track or autocross, but mostly it sat. I sold that whole engine and went back to a stock 964 engine. Personally I really like the sound of ITBs at full throttle, but they can be funky at part throttle. I'm probably going to stick with a plenum intake for the street. For my current 964 engine, I will consider a cam if I can find something for improving area under the curve, and if I saved the money, a really well thought out exhaust is probably wother it in the long run. Something like rarely L8 or the renn sport exhaust.... but that being said, I would have to ride in it first. The older I get (32 now), the less I want a bunch of racket, and the more I just want smooth quiet (ish) power delivery. Just finally putting my 911 back together now after 4 years between selling the ITB engine, and finishing my 964 engine build.

[safe]

Do the simple, rs-flywheel, cams, injectors, headers (if you can lose the heat) lose the airflow meter and add a chip.
The next thing would be to lightly port the heads and go to 993rs valves or valves with better profiles.

I have done the above minus the valves (cheaped out). Still have the stock chip and afm, I have a stand alone ecu on the way, but I still feels really nice.
Can't wait to get the proper ecu and get the engine tuned!