Newbie '73T 2.4 MFI Engine Rebuild
 

Hey All,

Longitme lurker, first time posting. I've been inspired by so many of the other engine rebuild and restoration threads on this forum; it's finally time for me to give it a go, and hopefully contribute back in some small way by documenting the process.

I've had my '73 911T (MFI) in and out of storage for about 9 years, after purchasing it and driving regularly for the first 2 years. I'm learning the hard way that I didn't do the motor (and many other bits) any favors by letting it sit. Now it's time to make things right :) My plan is to pull the motor and tranny, and perform as much of the teardown and rebuild as possible. I've got Wayne's book, this forum, and a healthy dose of naiveté... what could go wrong?

My 911 is a numbers-matching high-milage (285k) highly-original survivor. I've got records back to '75, which indicate that the case has never been opened, and that there was a top-end rebuild back in '82 at 93k miles. Previous owners were good about keeping records of their regular maintenance, and it's just amazing that the odometer has flipped almost 3 times since then without major service.

Before going in to storage, my compression/leakdown numbers were ok but not great:
Compression Check: 1-135, 2-130, 3-130, 4-135, 5-135, 6-115
Leakdown: 10,48,18,8,11,52

At various times during storage I would fire it up; always started without issue, but over the years became increasingly smoky. Last few starts (roughly 12 and 24mo ago) had a fairly significant amount of fuel leaking out from somewhere near the base of the MFI pump. I had done basically nothing to prep the car for storage- I was perpetually just a few months away from getting to it- then life happened and 10 years went by. Goes without saying, but this was VERY STUPID, and will certainly add to cost of my rebuild project! People, store your P-cars properly :)

So, back to the rebuild; here are my priorities:

1. Bullet-proof reliability. I'd like to think that this lump will be good for another few flips of the odo when I'm done with it.

2. Originality. I love love love long hood narrow-body hotrods, but I've decided that this 911 is not a candidate for that kind of build. I'd like to stay in the 'original survivor/driver' realm. I think a few tasteful upgrades (especially in the interest of reliability) are acceptable, as long as there's a clear path to return to stock.

3. Zing. I dunno what else to call it, but I'd like this engine to have just a little something special when compared to a stock 2.4. This could be a little more power, or maybe just the right exhaust note. I realize that this desire can come into direct conflict with both #1 and #2, and so I'll need to keep my hotrod dreams in check.

In other words, I don't know what I'm building yet- and looking for advice. Knowing nothing never stopped me from doing something, so on to the removal and teardown!


Jake

Ok, let's figure out how to pull this motor out!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504978462.jpg

Really, this thing is supposed to come out this way? Gotta get higher!

After lots of head-scratching and creative placement of wood blocks, we have clearance!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504978804.jpg

After some hi-fives, reality sets in. "Now what?!"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504979060.jpg

Anyway, there it is- one honest 2.4 MFI motor ready to be brought back to life. Looks so easy in the book :) My brother and I spent an inordinate amount of time, during each phase, staring at the car, staring at the jack stands, staring at the jack, staring at a pile of wood, thinking: Ok, now how do we jack the car up higher when the jack is already holding the motor? How come these jack stands don't go higher? Now that the motor's out, how do we get it off the jack? Once off the jack and onto blocks, how do we get the jack back under the lump to lift it up onto the cart? And on, and on, and on... but we got there. Beer helped (or so we told ourselves).



Jake

Here are some more pics. Pretty dirty, but everything looks straight.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980107.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980107.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980107.jpg

Now starting to remove bits and pieces:


Some MFI action:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980220.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980220.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980220.jpg

Man that fan shroud was nasty! But totally intact/undamaged.

So that's what it looks like underneath:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504980220.jpg

Lots of oily gunk everywhere, but so far, so good. Now that we've got some of the parts removed, it's time to figure out how to move the motor from the cart to the engine stand. I'll restock my fridge, and try to bribe a few friends with beer.



Jake

Here's my box of MFI bits. Pump and injectors are off to the OG MFI guru Gus at Pacific Fuel Injection. He was great- took the time to show me around his shop, and to explain what all of those old Bosch machines do. We need more guys like him.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504998429.jpg

Here's my engine #, for posterity... no surprises here, matches the COA.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504998515.jpg

Ok now the fun part. It's amazing how hard things can be when you don't think them through! I thought I'd just roll my cart right into the engine stand, easy peasy. Of course, the cart runs into the feet of the stand, so close, but no go. Many immature jokes were had at this stage, for reasons the pic should make obvious.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504998651.jpg

Time to bring in some muscle! Nice to have friends willing to help. By "help", I mean drink my beer and ridicule my obvious lack of foresight.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504998776.jpg

Success! Plus, everyone still has all their toes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504999318.jpg



Jake

Ok, now that the lump is on the stand, I can finally turn it over to get to the exhaust manifold bolts. As my floor and I learned, there is still quite a bit of oil in there! Costco shop towels are a must :)

Lots of oily grime all over, and you can see the wet-looking discoloration around cyl 123 from the fuel leak.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505000039.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505000039.jpg

I let the manifold studs/nuts soak in some thread penetrant. Still, these things are a pain to remove. I broke two studs, and two more decided to unthread from the heads rather than release their nuts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505000403.jpg

Success! Everything's a bit harder than you think it should be...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505000403.jpg

Here are the removed heat exchangers. Looks like mostly surface rust, with some small areas of more serious erosion.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505000403.jpg

My plan was to replace these with SSIs. Any opinions out there as to their restorability? Or would they ever be worth anything to anyone?

Jake

Now we're gettin' to it...

Valve covers off:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505004963.jpg

Records show the lower turbo valve covers were added back in 1990, while the intake covers were swapped in 2003.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505004963.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505004963.jpg

and Carrera chain tensioners added back in June '86 at 131k mi. Looks like the right chain cover was swapped at the same time- it's got a 930 part number.
Correction: They're both newer 930 parts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505004963.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505004963.jpg

I gather it's wise to replace the tensioners, as they've seen 150k mi. I can't see anything wrong with them, but then again I really wouldn't know what to look for.

Jake

Cool project and car! One thing to keep in mind is that if you decide to change your cams for more zing as you put it, be sure to give Gus a heads up at Pacific Injection as you might need to change the space cam in the injection pump. Going to 911e cam or DC 40 might give you some more zing without going down the slippery slope. I'm assuming you're doing a complete rebuild from the bottom up with possibly new pistons and head work. A good machine shop in the Bay Area is German Precision (talk to Ted Robinson) if you're going that route. Good luck and I'll be following it.

@MST0118 Thanks for the feedback, and good tip on German Precision.

Yes, planning on a full bottom's-up rebuild. I'm hoping to keep as many of the original parts as reasonable; but I do think P's and C's are on the menu.

Sorry for the dumb question, but what is a DC 40?

Best-

Jake

DC 40s are similar to the S cam. Dougherty Racing Cams Porsche 911, 930 and 964 camshaft profiles Might be more than what you need.

A little larger bore. You could have you cylinders bored. Matching JE pistons with more compression and some reground cams and you should be happy.

Your limiting factor is your intake port size which will limit your HP increases.

@Trackrash Thanks for the feedback. A slightly more aggressive cam is interesting, but I don't want to go too far... my plan is 100% street-oriented. An S cam might just be the sweet spot.

Regarding a slightly larger bore, are you suggesting I could run new JE pistons within my stock (though bored) cylinders? That would certainly help on the cost side, as a full set of JE p's and c's is a bit spendy.

Understood regarding the intake port size. Not looking for big power gains here, just a slight "edge". It's a very, very slippery slope :)

Cheers,

Jake

Making more progress. Here are some shots of the clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel. Everything looks pretty good. Clutch definitely needs replacing... any reason to go non-stock/OEM for a mild street build?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505102039.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505102039.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505102039.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505102039.jpg


-Jake

Might be a trick of the light but with what looks like a lot of wear I'd replace all cam drive sprockets and use a new non-master link chain. New tensioners would be wise.

That's a good bit of mileage. Get the case checked out to see if it's viable for the needed basic machining mods before spending even one dollar. There was a 72S in Hemmings Sports and Exotic Car magazine (when they were still around) that had 651K miles. But it was on its second case. Here is the car: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hemmings.com/magazine/hsx/2013/10/Marathon-Runner---1972-Porsche-911-S-Targa/3730381.html%3famp=1

Finally getting into some of the good stuff.

Wayne's book is right- it takes a serious amount of force to get those cam nuts off, even with the proper crow's foot and special cam socket tool. I was able to do it by myself, but would have been much easier w a second set of hands.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505103271.jpg

Lots of gunky stuff on the case. I guess I'll try to figure out how to clean all of that once the case is split.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505103271.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505103271.jpg

Right side chain housing is a 930 part, left is stock.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505103271.jpg


- Jake

Thanks for noticing- yeah, sprockets and chains will be replaced. I'm not sure how much wear is too much- but these parts are definitely showing some rounding around the edges, etc. Here's a slightly better pic:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505105985.jpg


-Jake

These are easily replaced without having to remove or even lower the engine. I'd box 'em up and reuse especially if they worked fine before disassembly. I would be sure to look at the idler and upgrade if it has the narrow arm and washer arrangement.

Just did my own rebuild this year using Waynes book! Def. go 2.4S ,I even used 2.2s pistons. Check it out but your intake ports look like they have been opened already. Have fun ,take your time.

Thanks for the note. Good to know that replacing the tensioners isn't an absolute requirement. I'll probably err on the side of over-replacing; one of the main things I'm looking for out of this project is some piece of mind (as much as can be expected out of a hi-mileage 44 yr old car...)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm definitely considering a similar setup. Any lessons learned you'd be willing to share?

More pics coming soon...


-Jake

If you decide to run S cams, then you'll need to give Gus a heads up to put in the right space cam for your pump.

Also, you may want to consider opening the ports to "S" specs (think 36-35 for intake/exhaust?). If you increase ports, then throttle bodies and stacks should also be bored for that accordingly. If you'll be doing your MFI stacks/TBs, a good place to have this done is Eurometrix or Supertec.

This is in addition to getting pistons with deeper valve pockets for the S cams.

If the tensioner's plungers were firm, they are OK to reuse.

Your heat exchangers look to be in good condition. You could have them cleaned and coated for protection. I had mine Aluminum Plasma metal sprayed. Hot jet ceramic coating is another option.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505250971.jpg

Having fun? That's what it's all about.

I'm all for the S spec, cams etc etc, but not really wanting to start another value discussion I see you have matching #'s and what seems to be a survivor. I would recommend rebuilding to spec and enjoying it. A really well done MFI T motor is fun on the street with the lower end torque. It's easy (a little expensive) to go the S route but harder to go back for originality. Not that visually there is much of a difference.

Can always do what I did and after you've had fun with the T you can moth ball it a build a 3.0L MFI:D That's really fun.

I'm sure your doing your homework, Wayne's book only touches on it but it's a must to have your case line-bored if split.

Enjoy

Thanks all for the great feedback. Some responses:

Yours look great! How did you have them cleaned? standard media-blast?



Yeah- understood re. MFI space cam. I'm pretty sure Gus is still fairly backlogged, so I've got some time before I need to commit.

Increasing the intake port size makes a ton of sense from a performance perspective, but definitely starts getting me into that slippery slope territory of stock vs hotrod :) But I'm certainly considering it. Thanks for the shop recommendations.

Good to know!


- Jake

Absolutely having fun. Often wish I didn't have to do anything else :)

I love the idea of a 2nd motor. My budget doesn't! I'm definitely guilty of looking around for a rebuildable core somewhere out there that could one day serve as the base for a legit hotrod build... but I need to keep the focus on the task at hand. Your 3.0L MFI must be a monster! What case did you start w? Someday, maybe someday...

Yep, was planning on having my case line-bored, along with the other set of typical machining tasks.


Thanks,

Jake

There is a place in San Diego where I used to live that specializes in coatings. They sandblasted and plasma metal sprayed an aluminum coating on my exhaust.

Ok, let's see how those p's and c's are looking!

Heads off- dirty, but no obvious problems:

1-2-3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505397915.jpg


4-5-6

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505397915.jpg


1-2-3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505398199.jpg


4-5-6 Cylinder 4 decided to pull off with the head, a few mallet taps and no problem.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505398199.jpg


No surprises, which is a good thing.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505398426.jpg

1-2-3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505398426.jpg


4-5-6

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505398426.jpg

Everything looks pretty good, at least to my untrained eye. Lots of carbon buildup, and some fairly worn-looking rings, but nothing's broken. Each cylinder looks pretty clean inside, no major scoring or obvious cause for concern.

Next up- head studs :)


-Jake

Ok now time to remove the head studs... after reading Wayne's book (and lots of posts here) I was a little apprehensive about this part of the job. Maybe I got lucky, but it wasn't too bad at all.

I started by trying the "2 nut" approach, which worked ok on the first stud. On the 2nd stud, the 2 nuts kept spinning together, independent of the stud, no matter how hard I tightened the nuts together. I cranked the nuts against each other as hard as I could, and ended up stripping the threads out of one of them before I got any movement from the stud itself :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505536160.jpg


Though Wayne's book recommends a collet-style stud removal tool, I just couldn't swallow the price tag. I picked up one of these locking stud-remover tools for much cheaper, and it worked like a champ:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505536160.jpg


Only issue I could see is that it does bite into the stud, leaving noticeable marks. I'll be replacing the studs anyway, so no worries.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505536160.jpg


Done!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505536160.jpg


- Jake

Almost ready to pull this thing apart!

Flywheel and pulley off:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505537283.jpg


Case studs:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505537283.jpg


Ready to split:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505537283.jpg


One case-half off and away:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505537283.jpg


And the moment of truth!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505537283.jpg


Very cool. Like Wayne's book says, it's a great little moment when you get to see inside the case for the first time.


- Jake

More internals detail. No obvious issues. According to the receipts, the case has never been split- looks pretty good for 285k mi!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622740.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622740.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622740.jpg


Bearings all look fine:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622868.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622868.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622868.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505622868.jpg


Up next: crank and rods.


- Jake

Closer look at the crankshaft and rods:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505623275.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505623275.jpg



- Jake

... and the oil pump.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505623409.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505623409.jpg


Any opinions on rebuild vs. replace here? There's nothing obviously wrong with the pump, but I'm assuming doing something to help increase oil flow couldn't hurt.


- Jake

Might be a good time to upgrade pump for not too much $$.

BTW. Also, saw what appeared to be a nice set of 2.2 S pistons for sale on used parts forum for $700. Those may work well with your cylinders if you want more power or to run S cams.

Thanks! I'm all over those pistons. Now just need some S cams to pop up, though I gather E cams would work as well, if a bit milder.


- Jake

Awesome thread Jake... thanks for sharing the link....
I'm really interested to see how you go about getting all those parts cleaned...
Keep us updated with those pics.
You are definitely inspiring me to get my 3.2 rebuilt.

Thanks!

I don't plan on fully cleaning everything myself. I'll do what I can, but most bits will end up getting media blasted and painted/coated/plated as appropriate. I figure I should at least do a preliminary cleaning so that I'm not embarrassed to send any of the parts to a real professional :)



- Jake

Now that the case is apart and the crank and rods are out, it's time to go back and take apart the head assemblies.

Here's the left-side cam carrier and heads 1-2-3:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg


First rocker arm parts out:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg


More rocker arms.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg


Notice how cloggy the journals in the rocker arm pin are:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg


With camshafts:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg



Ready to remove the heads now!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506055989.jpg



- Jake

Pulling the cam towers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg


Wow- lots of blue silicon on the right side. Records show a top end rebuild back in '82; if nothing else, that stuff holds its color!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg


Compressing the valve springs:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg


Exhaust valves are pretty cruddy, but no obvious damage. Getting those shims out from under the springs was one of the most annoying jobs yet! My magnet was too big to fit right in the gap, and there was just enough surface oil to kinda stick 'em all together. I was to afraid to forcefully pry them out with a pick, so the only thing that worked was to float some WD-40 in there to try to break up the stickiness, and then jiggle everything just enough that my magnet would eventually pull up a shim. Took forever!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg


Valve seats look pretty good.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506817764.jpg



That's pretty much all there is to a teardown. Now it's time to clean everything, and to figure out what to send out for repair (most of it), repair myself, and what to replace.

Stay tuned-

Jake

Post a shot of valves sitting in head? No need to re-install springs.

Be interesting to see how much valve recession over the years.

As I mentioned early in the thread, I would like to give this old lump a little extra kick. I'll keep things relatively tame, but it seems like a shame to me to do all of this work without taking the opportunity to improve a few things. So, after many, many hours of searching through the wealth of info in this forum (including the helpful replies in this thread), as well as talking with some local experts, I've decided to:

- Increase the compression, ideally to 9.8:1, but could go a bit higher
- Replace the camshafts to something that will take better advantage of the increased compression
- Replace the MFI space cam to match

According to everything I've read so far, the compression gain is easily achieved by swapping in pistons from an older 2.2. This seems like a straight-forward affair; the 2.2 pistons are 84mm just like the stock 2.4T's. With some tips from you guys here, I grabbed some 2.2S pistons from another Pelican.

I read a bunch about the cam choice, and the go-to seems to be an S or mod-S cam, when the goal is maximizing performance at full revs (and assuming proper airflow). As I'll be only driving on the street, I'd prefer something with a flatter torque curve- even if I give up a few HP at the top end. With that in mind, and given some feedback here and from John Dougherty, I've decided to go with a set of E cams. And, luckily, I found some straight away.

Consensus seems to be that the 2.4T is under-compressed (if that's a term) at its stock 7.5:1 ratio, meaning that rest of the motor should have no fundamental issues with a higher compression ratio. The most common concern seems to be valve interference when running a spicy cam, but the collective wisdom suggests that the somewhat conservative E cams should have no problems. Still, I will certainly triple-check the clearance when the engine finally comes together.

The question that seems hardest to answer so far is: what will the compression ratio actually be (assuming 2.2S pistons and everything else stock 2.4)? I can't seem to find a clear answer, despite the significant number of related posts. The message seems to be, "It'll work, you'll like it, many have done it without issue...", which is great- but I am curious as to what the final CR will be.

What really made me question things was a conversation with Ted from German Precision- off the cuff he thought the CR might be as high as 12:1. I tried to tell him that was way too high, but then quickly realized that a total newb like me, despite being armed with (the always infallible) data from the Internets, should NOT be arguing with a guy with 40-something years experience working on P-car engines :)

Needless to say, I started getting a little nervous about my choice in pistons. Obvious next thing to do was calculate the CR myself, but without the actual pistons in-hand yet, nor the proper measurement tools, this would be difficult... but I did find this great table in a older post:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322793830.jpg

Great! Now I can take the 2.2S dome volume (V4) and swap it into the rest of the stock 2.4T numbers. As I understand it, none of the other values would change; so my values would be:

V1 = 390.14
V2 = 5.54
V3 = 68
V4 = 32 (assuming 2.2S pistons. was 13.5 w stock 2.4T pistons)

and as CR = v1+v2+v3-v4 / v2+v3-v4, I get:
CR = 10.39:1

Ok, math is fun. Good news that it's not the 12:1 Ted was afraid of, but still, 10.4:1 seems a bit higher than I expected! That's racecar territory- should I be concerned?

Possible caveats: My math is wrong, my assumptions about the calc are incorrect, etc.

Possible explanations: There are many, many discussions about "real" CR vs. calculated CR. Even without getting into dynamic CR stuff, many previous posts seem to suggest that the actual CR might be a bit lower than what the calc would provide. In other words, don't worry about it ...

Possible remedy: Use different pistons. Looks like our host sells some 84mm "9.8:1" pistons. Can I take this to mean that they'd have a dome volume V4 of around 29.5 (back-solving for 9.8:1 CR)? I'd prefer to stick with the OE Porsche pistons, if I can.

Anyway, I'm inclined to proceed with the plan, and hoping the CR stuff is much ado about nothing. Thanks in advance for your feedback-


Jake

Hi Jeff, here's a pic of #2-3 from before I disassembled everything. Probably too dirty to see what you're looking for, but worth a shot.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1506837743.jpg


I've since done a lot of cleaning, so I'll throw one of 'em back together and snap another pic for you tomorrow.

- Jake

Its hard to know exactly what you will end up with until assembly. That is when you do the actual measurements to verify your calculations. There are lots of variables. Then there are adjustments that can be made, like cylinder base gaskets.

First find out if your calculations represent real world results. There are those on this board who have done this mod. Hopefully some will chime in.

Have you done the calculations using 2,2 E pistons. Those might be closer to what you want. Are you seriously going to use OE 2,2 pistons?

What you might want to consider are JE 9,5 to 1 pistons. That is what I used on my recent build. I was able to actually get 9.8 to 1 after I did all the assembly and took my measurements.

EDIT: I just read in Bruce Anderson's book "The change in stroke will increase the compression ratio by about 0.55 above what it would have been in the shorter stroke engine.
Therefore the S in the 2,2 was 9.8 to 1 so in the 2,4 it would be 10.35. Looks to match your calcs.
The E piston from the 2,2 was 9.1 so in a 2,4 would be 9.65, right where you want to be.