Born in 75's 3.2 build
 

Hello! Welcome to the thread of my 87 3.2 Carrera motor rebuild. As some of you know, I have a 1975 911S with a stock 2.7. I've done a lot to my car as documented in my build thread over at the tech forum.

My stock 2.7 has held up OK despite being a thermal reactor car, having no front cooler for the majority of it's life (and being in hot climates like so-Cal and Arizona) and generally leaking quite a bit. I've done everything I can do to it without a rebuild. When I started looking at costs and final results of the 2.7 and the notorious mag case, I began looking around for a 3.0 or 3.2 to build. Having a second core would allow me to drive my car for the year or so it would take me to build my new motor. I'll shelf the numbers matching 2.7 for posterity and a future rebuild.

The opportunity to get into a 3.2 core came up at a low price that I didn't think I would ever see again for a 3.2 that included the fan, tin, crossbar, yoke and dizzy. The low entry price will allow me to amortize my total build cost over several years since I will have to buy an intake and exhaust eventually. It may end up costing me more in the long run but will allow me to fully customize intake and exhaust and all other parts to my whim. Doing a lot of the work will help me keep the build costs reasonable. I felt like the motor was a good buy as I have personally seen this motor running recently. The car appeared to move well and didn't smoke when I followed the car around So-Cal last may when I went to Luft4. I know the PO and felt like I knew what I was getting into.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510580642.jpg

This is the engine before I got it. The PMOs on the left caught fire during a drive. The fire was extinguished before a major catastrophe ensued. The other PMOs and exhaust were removed before I received it. Before the fire, the motor had occasional smoke problem. As a result of the fire, the motor was tested for compression and #5 was found to be low on compression. Results for the other cylinders were good for compression and leakdown.

The PO bought the motor with his car (coincidentally also a 75) and I've noticed a lot of mods that tell me that who ever did the swap, used some items off his original 2.7.

One such item was the shroud. It appears the outside was painted black over the green gelcoat. I haven't seen any sign of fire on the shroud and the wiring harness is totally fine. I think the fire was high on top of the carbs and was killed before it got too far down.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510581089.JPG

Another was this 2.7 distributor that contained a petronix ignitor and the vacuum advance plugged off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510581089.JPG

There's play in the shaft, and this is the wrong distributor as there is backlash in the gear drive when using a 2.7 distributor on a 3.2. So I'll be selling this core distributor or maybe I'll keep it for my 2.7 if I ever want to change the ignition.

A few nice surprises were: 1. The mexico blue highlights on the fan, housing, valve covers and cross brace are (I THINK) paint and not powder coated. I'll be taking them down to metal and maybe just clear coating or painting them black. 2. There appears to be a brand new alternator in the fan.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510581389.jpg

Once I got the shroud off, I could see the source of the occasional smoking problem and low compression on 5. Oil is blowing past the cylinder and making it's way out between the head and cylinder. Broken rings?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510581661.jpg

Here's another clue that PO was running 2.7 style SSI (thin flange) HEs. Short exhaust studs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510581912.jpg

I have Thick flange SSI on my 2.7 and if I want to swap, I'll need to change these to long studs. But that's a minor issue in a sea of unknowns at this point. I would run them if I remained stock. As I've heard they are fine for low end torque on a stock 3.2.

I will most likely be changing out the P/Cs to either euro for higher compression, or to a 3.4 displacement.

I noticed a lot of leaks around the cam tower with the plugs and cam lines. Looks like someone was a fan of some kind of white sealant.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510583757.jpg

I removed the cooler before putting it on my hand me down engine stand.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510582374.jpg

I just ordered the Torin engine stand from Costco. It's got the two legs, folds down and holds up to 1250lbs. I had picked up a yoke last year. It's an ebay special yoke but fits fine. The only problem was that it didn't come with any holes so I had to drill holes in the steel pipe for the set pin- which was a major pain.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510583757.jpg


My goals for the project:

1. Have fun and challenge myself. I don't have a lot of engine building experience, but I grew up in my dad's shop watching and helping him build hot rods and engines. I've helped him assemble a few V-8s and do a variety of machine shop work.
2. Take my time but finish the project within a year.
3. Build either a stock 3.2 (find cheap used stock intake and cheap exhaust) and swap into my 75, OR Build a dream engine core, then phase two add dream intake (two year timeline) I imagine opening up the engine will tell me which direction to take.

I like the look of this recent build:

This is an EFI with Jenvey ITBs and 911R style shroud.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510584172.jpg

Follow along for faux pas and fun.

Looks like a fun project.

Too bad you can't get the other PMO. I can't imagine that it isn't repairable. You might want to see if one is available somewhere. What size is it?

Are the cams stock? With carbs you are free to go to aggressive cams.

I bet the problem with #5 is broken head studs.

Good luck with your build.

Unfortunately, the carbs were bought by the previous owners mechanic before I was offered the engine. The first picture was taken before I bought the engine and I received it sans intake and exhaust.

I actually just pulled the chain box off and the cam is marked 930 14710. I think that is a stock 3.2 cam right? All the head studs appear to be intact. I'm removing the nuts on the left bank currently, but I inspected the other side and they are all intact, but I didn't torque them. I am very curious what is causing the low compression on 5. We shall soon find out!

More on the tear down. I ordered the QSC P9191 tool off ebay. I used it with an ordinary deep socket and just went slow with a lot of leverage so as not to mark the cam bolt. It was suprisingly easy and I was expecting it to be much harder. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary as far as the sprockets.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510683923.jpg

Looks like a stock 3.2 Cams are marked 930 14710 and 14810
Chain boxes came off easy using a rubber mallet and some light taps.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684322.jpg

Some wear on the chain ramps as expected. Of course I'll replace with new. I bought some for my 2.7 that I didn't use...are they they same?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684399.jpg

Next up were the head stud nuts. Wayne says to remove the whole head and cam tower assembly. I was a bit worried about snapping some head studs, but I shot them with PBblaster and did a turn, and then a slight turn back, then a turn, then a slight turn back. This way I was able to break them all free with no drama.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684453.jpg

The removed heads and cam towers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684651.jpg

There was some kind of sealant all over that crumbled. and fell onto the cylinders. It was orange and very brittle. This large rock like thing was jammed into the middle of #5. Carbon?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684708.jpg

Left side bank was all oily

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684832.jpg

Right side has a cracked exhaust valve on #6.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684956.jpg

And problem child #5 exhaust valve looks like it is not seated (low compression cylinder)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684956.jpg

Inspected #5, rings are intact and cylinder bore is clean AFAIK

I did see this dried glue/goop - what is it? Is that normal?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510684956.jpg

I can see an impact mark on #5 piston top from the exhaust valve. Out of picture space so I'll show that in the next post.

More to come...

No broken studs? Amazing.

Perhaps the #5 exhaust valve hit the piston? Weak valve spring? Usually an over rev will hit more than one valve. Probably should check and possibly replace all the exhaust valves.

3.2/3.0 valves are way less expensive than the smaller mid year/ early motors.
Orange tends to be 574, looks like the builder liked to seal base gaskets with schillac
Bruce

Thanks Gordon and Bruce. I took the heads off on 4,5,6 today.

Rocker shafts pitted and scratched. Grooves on each end. RSR seals on all of them. Someone's been in here...
Rocker bushings not bad but I'll re-bush too..recommendations?

Cam on right side looks good. I'll probably resell them to cover cost of more aggressive cams.

So here's the weird thing I ran into...

Head 4 is marked 2 on the back and 4 on the outside.
Head 5 is marked 4 on the back and 5 on the outside.
Head 6 is marked 3 on the back and 6 on the outside.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510880291.jpg

Engine builders..why would they change them up like this?

Also, who can clean my cam tower and maybe machine the surfaces?

Thank you guys for all the help.

The stampings might have been machinist markings so he keeps everything together.
I and probably you do not have a set of stamps
I mark my heads and my machinist stamps over my marks.
Bruce

Those numbers could mean that the motor was gone through multiple times or not. That number stamping is not factory, I believe.

Should have showed the other side, the outside, these numbers were correct for where they were.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510886072.jpg

So this one was marked with a 3 on the backside.

Don't have the machinist stamps, but I'm sending out the heads to be rebuilt by our forum guy Craig.

Was that the leaking cylinder? Doesn't look like the cylinder was seated on the head.

Here's the low compression #5. Best I can tell, it leaked at the cam tower. But I'm not sure, this area shows the cam tower at 5.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510899843.jpg

A close up:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510899870.jpg

This shows the head on cam side at area of heavy oil concentration on low compression cylinder.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510899870.jpg

this is the piston side of #5
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510899870.jpg

Sad that whoever marked the heads, marked them on the mating surface. They left pecker tracks of the numbers on the cam tower.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510899993.jpg

Also, what do you make of this machined surface? It looks pretty rough to me. i also noticed the stud holes are beveled on the cam tower...will my cam tower survive?

Cylinder #6 also has the same oily stains (red arrow) and the marking imprint (circle). Does it have low compression too ?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510992350.jpg

Only 5 did, and yes all 6 numbers were impressed upon the cam tower. These surfaces will likely be decked anyway, not that those marks would have caused the leaks...Low compression on others is a moot point anyway since I'll be boring the cylinders to 98mm and running CP, or JE 98mm pistons for a 3.4 build.

My ballpark plan for the build is:

EFI with ITB (which setup might be up to budget) With The xfactory/or clay Triumph ITB setup being an option.

3.4 using existing cylinders bored out to 98mm and Carrillo or JE Pistons. 10.3:1

Possibly dual spark COP pump gas 91

What do we know about Carrillo Pistons?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511017756.jpg

Looks to me like the oil return tubes were leaking.

No doubt, and you're right - that's the wrong side of the cam carrier to identify the leak I was seeing at the top of five. After looking over the top side, I've come to the conclusion that it wasn't leaking at the head, but at the rocker shafts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511273593.jpg

All the rocker shafts are in really poor shape. They show pitting, scratches and the cam carrier itself has wear marks from the rsr seals on the shafts. The rocker bushings themselves are all worn as well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511273593.jpg

what's interesting is the grooves on the shafts and in the housing, it almost looks like the shafts spun in the bore...Maybe they got loose at some point?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511273593.jpg

What's the best practice on ensuring a leak free bore moving forward? I guess the bores cannot be machined out as the rocker shafts are only one size.Of course the shaft expands when torqued down. I'm hoping a clean bore, new shafts with seals and bushings will keep me leak free.

Yea, those shafts are showing wear. Hard to tell from the pic if the bores in the cam housings are bad. Can those grooves be felt, or are they just marks? There usually will be marks from the shafts which are usually not a problem.

Its hard to believe that with the RSR seals that much oil could be leaking from the rocker shafts. Were they tight in the bore?

You've got quite an autopsy going on this engine. Nice job so far!

Looks like somebody chose to seal the cylinders to the heads with the orange loctite 574 goop? That's not necessary...... Also no reason to use that white teflon paste goop anywhere in these engines.

I would consider replacing the rocker shafts since they show a lot of markings. When you consider the fit is such a close one, you don't have a lot of room for wear. Plus the shafts aren't that expensive and Pelican has two good alternatives (Mahle & Febi Bilstein) to the original Por$che part

The bores in the cam housing need to be cleaned up so your shafts will seal well. Need to be careful with what you use and not disturb the surface too much. Wrapping a socket with super fine grit sandpaper does a nice job of cleaning them without disturbing the precision fit. Or you could try a hone and be very gentle with it.

You can get a grape hone that is 5/8" size (the rocker shaft bore is 18mm which is 5.67/8ths) and rotate the hone by hand to clean up the crud. Be sure to lubricate the hone with some oil.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#4424a504/=1ad8cmr

The cam housings are easily the most neglected and abused part in these engines. I have seen so many boogered up cam housings over the years and I just don't understand why. It's baffling to me that people don't treat them with more care, given how much influence this piece has on oil leaks. Let's think about it:

-Both valve cover gasket surfaces
-Oil return tubes
-Camshaft paper gasket surface (more on this later)
-Rocker shafts
-Head sealing surfaces
-Oil spray tube

All of those places I listed have a high chance of creating a leak and still people do crazy stuff like clean them up with a scotchbrite pad, stamp numbers in a machined surface, gouge them with tools, etc. Just don't understand why so much carelessness :confused:

Regarding that camshaft paper seal location. Make sure before you reinstall the housing, to flatten the gasket location on each housing and also flatten the gasket side of the thrust plate (the piece that bolts in from the chain box side) because you'll be surprised how NOT flat that area is. Especially on the cam housing. It's easy to do with some wet-sand paper and a flat surface like a pane of glass.

And when you mate the heads with the cam housing, you hardly need any sealant. Only the round areas near the valves and the stud holes need sealant. All the rest of the machined surface doesn't need anything. It's just a waste of sealant and makes for unnecessary cleanup work (removal of old sealant) the next time someone takes it apart.

I think the CP pistons are a nice alternative to the usual JE pistons that have been used for years. The CP pistons appear to have all the features JE offers, and many of them at no addtional cost. Like for instance the JE pistons cost a lot more if you want the reduced skirt (they call it FSR- Forged Side Relief) and CP pistons are standard that way with their X-forging. Plus the flyer below says their pistons include a piston pin circlip (wire lox) tool. SWEET! :D

http://www.cp-carrillo.com/files/porsche-flyeronline.pdf

Kevin,

Thank you so much for the detailed info. That grape hone is a great idea. I'm thinking the 600 or 800 grit and to just lightly do it by hand with some oil.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well over the long weekend, my pops came up from AZ and brought his vintage Snap-on "Made in U.S.A." stud puller! He said he had it since the early 70s I couldn't believe how easy it was with this tool. All 24 studs came out easy. The dilvar studs came out with very little effort. The steel studs squeeked a bit and required more force, but nothing crazy.

Give the stud a little tap to break the loc-tite, thread on the stud puller:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511794425.jpg

Tighten the collet and unscrew the stud, oil a bit as you go.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511794425.jpg

Super easy to use and took me less than an hour to do both sides. No heating required.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803253.jpg

The studs are perfect (other than the exhaust studs being made of Dilvar) and I hope to resell the 12 intake studs. (any idea of price)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803253.jpg

Then I moved onto splitting the case:

Removed the 11 through bolts-

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803116.jpg

Blue seals. I removed the seals and the through bolts dropped right out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803695.jpg

Removed the 23 case nuts and washers and 2 bolts, removed the nut and washer inside the chain housing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803738.jpg

On the top of the case (Yellow square) was a brace/clip. Anyone know what this is for?

Wiring harness clip maybe?


The case came apart easy with a few gentle and strategic taps from a rubber mallet.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803813.jpg

Looks pretty good inside. I see a scrape on the #3 bearing

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803871.jpg

and here is the nose bearing. Looks a bit worn, not too bad though.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511803871.jpg

Continued...

Some other areas I found damage so far:

IMS gear? Oil drive gear has some small chewed up areas.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511804489.jpg

I think it's reusable. What do you think?

Also found that the this stud mount is broken off on the back of the engine where it connects to the trans. i think it's a engine tin mount hole.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511804489.jpg

I want to hot tank the case. What machine work do you think is necessary for the case?

Yep I was thinking the same thing for the hone grit. 800 is probably a good safe bet to get in there and polish off the material outside of the area where the rocker shaft typically sits in the bores. I would still pre-clean that area with a crude tool to get most of the crud out of there. You don't want the hone to spread that crud around the bore and scratch it more than the hone will.

That Snap On stud removal tool is the hot setup, no? I love that thing. I use it a lot to remove M8 studs in cam housings

New steel studs are $11.75 each here at Pelican. Typical used pricing is 1/2 the price of new? Call it $8 each for nice condition ones like yours and an even $100 asking price?

Usually the sign of an engine that's been opened up is the blue through-bolt o-rings. I was surprised to find those in my '86 3.2L I opened up last week, because I didn't believe that it had been opened since new and has only 77,000 miles. Does your case have the through bolt holes chamfered on both case halves? Mine only has it on one half and I found the same on my '79 engine case. I used a simple countersink bit in a hand drill at very low speed to chamfer the half that wasn't. A number of the pro engine builders here have endorsed doing that so I just took their advice. Makes perfect sense to me, to avoid mangling the o-rings at re-installation since they act more like a packing material than an actual o-ring function.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742A29

I'd also recommend rubbing your through-bolt washers on a flat plate with some fine abrasive. That'll ensure any corrosion buildup from age is rubbed off and the contact surfaces are as flat as reasonably possible.

I wouldn't concern myself with that scrape on the #3 bearing. It looks very shallow and hasn't done the bearing any harm. The nose bearing seems OK on the outside. You want to look on the inside where the crank snout comes through it. That's where the actual bearing wear would occur. These don't seem to experience much wear so i'd be inclined to reuse that bearing too. Just be sure to put a very very thin coat of sealant in the case bore where this #8 bearing insert sits. it's added insurance against leakage since the only thing preventing oil leakage here (and this is a pressurized location) is the large o-ring around the bearing insert.

That intermediate shaft gear looks like it got damaged with some kind of hard material. I suspect it was like that prior to the last rebuild or else you'd find some signs of aluminum chunks in the case somewhere? I would simply clean up the edges of the damaged area with a fine file and call it good. Speaking of gear tooth damage, does the picture with the nose bearing show a nick on the brass distributor gear? If so, I would be sure to also clean up that nicked area with a fine file.

If you hot tank the case, you'll want to pull the oil galley plugs (there are many of them) to make sure there's not any residual crud left in them. I'm especially sensitive about crud in the galleys because I hate areas you can't see and therefore who knows what's found its way into those hidden passages. As far as machining, the aluminum cases seem like they're stable and don't need any specialized machining. They're not like the magnesium cases that go all dimensionally wonky when you take them apart.

It does not have the through bolt holes chamfered on both case halves. I agree with your thoughts on chamfering the other side and will do so.

There is gear tooth damage on the IMS gear as well as the brass distributor gear. It is like one or two teeth and fairly minor. Something flew through there and and took a chunk out. I didn't find any blatant chunks of metal, but I've come across something odd. The oil pump does not spin freely. It feels like kickstarting a motorcycle, like it spins a bit, then harder, then free. Some old oil or maybe the chunk from the gear is in there. I did a little research and it should spin freely no?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512147596.jpg

Now I am even happier that I split the case after finding that.

I may leave the broken engine tin mount and just home clean the case. Shipping it seems risky and expensive since I don't think I need any machine work. What solvents or methodology should I use for home cleaning the case?

I removed the crank. There are some scratches on #3 bearing just like the other half. This side actually has more.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512147788.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512147596.jpg

I'm at the point of removing the rods bolts. This was another reason to split the case. Apparently these rod bolts are smaller than earlier cars 9mm vs 10mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512147596.jpg

There shouldn’t be rotational lines on the #8 bearing, its supposed to set in a pin on the right side of the case.
Bruce

Open the oil pump and have a look. Make sure to mark the gears so they go back together in same orientation.

This is the top half of the oil pump case. Some scratches on one side of the housing

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

The top set of gears. Showing some wear along the edges

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

Exposing the bottom set of gears

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

Marking the bottom gears temporarily

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

the underside of the plate that divides the top of the oil pump case from the bottom. I found small chunk of metal. Magnetic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

Bottom set of gears closest to oil intake screen

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

A pretty good scratch. I'm not sure if it was the metal bit. It was a really really small piece of metal. Like pinhead.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512174836.jpg

Should I send this to Henry at supertec as a core or can it be cleaned and put back in? I guess if there's enough wear it wont produce sufficient oil pressure. Would love to hear seasoned opinions.

Hey Bruce, the pin was there. I inspected the bearing, and here is what I saw:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512176437.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512175622.jpg

Not sure how the scratches got there since the pin was intact...

Well I decided to call around for help today. Of the 4 phone calls I made, one called back. Glenn Yee of Glenn Yee Motorsports. Many of you are familiar with his oil pump mod and his work through various machine shops such as Ollies. Thanks Glenn! He told me all about the process of his rebuilt oil pumps and answered a ton of questions for my noob self.

I'll be sending my pump over to his business after the holidays in exchange for a rebuilt ported and polished pump. Glenn says his pump mods allows for 20% more flow. And there's a great explanation as well as pricing of his product here.

I also ended up taking my rods off the crank. Very easy job. I mounted the crank to the flywheel with three of the bolts and that made it an easy process. Just about all the rod bearings had scratches in them.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512518911.jpg

I also discovered a small fingernail sized chunk of aluminum near the sump drain. Definitely the chunk out of the IMS gear.

Around where the IMS gear sits there is internal case scratching and the bearing is worn to the copper.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512518911.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512518911.jpg

Lastly, what is this gray sludge? It's mostly at the bottom of the case. The oil pump had a lot of it around it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512518911.jpg

Some research suggests that it's steam mixed with oil as a result of a cracked head. So perhaps the low compression cylinder/head was leaking?


I'm guessing oil with something else mixed in?
The next thing I plan to do is finalize my build plan and then focus on the bottom end.

Here are some of the things I need to do for the short block:

-Decide on compression and piston. Leaning toward the 98mm CP with 10.5:1
-Buy ARP rod bolts 9mm
-Send the rods to be rebushed, balance them at home? Send with existing bolts, do I need to send with new bolts?
-Look into cross drilling crank, initial research says no. Wont be doing a lot of high reving or racing
-Machine shop, bore and replate Mahle cylinders to 98mm US chrome or ollies.
-Buy head studs ARP or stock steel.
-Glenn Yee oil pump
- send out and have crank polished, do I need to magnaflux?
-research oil galleys and piston squirters. -determine if I need to send my case out to have this done.

what other bottom end work needs to be done?

Thank you all for the help.

So about that grey sludge...whatya think?

It’s nice see you have a thread on your engine rebuild. I enjoyed your thread on your car I read previously. I assume you have gotten an answer already but in case you haven’t the grey sludge does appear to be an oil/water cocktail. I find it on my oil tank drain bolt at every change.

Hi Duan
You do need to provide new ARP rod bolt along with the connector rod and never reuse existing bolts..
is doesnt cost the much more to have your crank magnaflux..I would you never know there might be a ting cracks...

I have a dumb question...
Do the bearings fall out? I mean... are they supposed to be rather easy for them to pop off?

Thanks Evan! I enjoy writing. Some of my posts get a bit "purple" as they say, but my litmus is usually the following: If it makes me laugh, I post it. Let the eye rollers eat crow. :-D

Thanks Frank! Will do.

Perhaps a pro can chime in for the definitive answer, but in my case when I took the top half off, I think one of them fell out. The rest required just a slight nudge with a small screwdriver to pop them out of the case.

Question: If I'm sending my case to ollies for RR of the galleys and piston squirters and to fix the one tin mount that's broken off, how much pre cleaning do I need to do if they are going to hot tank it for me?

And what say you regarding Vapor blasting? Was thinking of vapor blasting the chain boxes and covers, and the valve covers. The cam towers will be ultrasonically cleaned.

Thank you all for the help.

Ollie's told me that I can wipe down any serious sludge that could contaminate the box I ship it in... but other than that, keep it the way it is. I guess they would prefer to clean something that hasn't had all kinds of chemicals sprayed on it.

I'm also sending my valve covers and timing chain covers to them as well to have them bead blasted/tumbled. They told me they do a 2 step process to make sure the metal is sealed properly through the bead blasting AND tumbling process. This helps against corrosion and protects the finish, preventing any need to paint over it.

Good day to you fine peoples!

Thought I would update my thread with some progress on my hot rod motor build. Of course, hot rod being a relative term. Overall, my build will be somewhat mild comparatively speaking.

Shortly after briefly entertaining a turbo conversion on the motor, I came across an intake deal from a member that was selling off his project car and motor. His setup appealed to me as it was fairly unique, looked amazing, and was priced right.

The intake is:

GSXR-1000 Throttle Bodies

They come bolted together in groups of 4 off a 2001? Suzuki GSXR.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

They consist of a primary and a secondary throttle valve. The secondary valve at the top will be removed and the holes filled.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

I'm deciding on how to fill the holes. Some say a plug with JB weld. JB weld can be broken down with gasoline so I don't think I'll go that route. Here you can see the top secondary holes:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520605644.jpg

The red circle shows where I'll need to weld on a tab extension on the two middle throttle bodies. Since I'm spacing the throttle bodies out, i'll need to extend these aproximately 1 inch to retain the stock functionality of one throttle cable controlling one entire bank of tb's. Each tab has a screw adjustment for idle, so retaining the stock setup is important in that regard.

The GSXR 1000 TB's have a 42mm ID which, from my research, is just about perfect for my mild 3.2 motor. I'm thinking Euro 10.3:1 95 Pistons and a hotter cam. Stock heads, and the SSI and custom dual out off my 2.7 motor. All of this is going to keep my total build goal budget to under 10k. (we'll see)

The TB's themselves aren't that pretty as they have shafts and mounting boss' that are used for the Suzuki bike. On the plus side, your eye will be drawn to these awesome velocity stacks, and I like that they are vertical as opposed to an angled setup off a Triumph bike. The guy who I bought them from designed them to be a straight shot for each head. Each TB uses it's own custom manifold. Aluminum tubing TIG welded to 3.2 flanges.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

Here's a mock-up I did to see how it would look. Each TB has a turned aluminum velocity stack that bells out to 50mm. Each stack has a custom tea strainer style filter made by BBRacing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

The velocity stacks will have to be clamped onto the throttle bodies in some manner. The manifolds are secured by a Porsche rubber boot with Porsche clamps. For the stack clamp, I'll probably put the stacks on a lathe and machine a groove a few mm above the base. Then I'll have some custom aluminum clamps made that use the lip on the TB and the groove in the stack to secure it all.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

The nice thing about buying complete setups off a bike is that you get things like a throttle position sensor. The ends also have a nice cam and cable mount for throttle cable.

In the red circle you can see one of three long bolts that secure the 4 TB's together on the bike. I'll be replacing this with threaded brass rod and two M5 nuts on each corner to properly secure and space the throttle bodies on the 3.2

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603787.jpg

The package also included:
Microsquirt ECU with 8' harness and USB cable for logging etc.
External 1BAR MAP sensor and harness
Bosch 6cyl coil-pack (0221503002) for wasted-spark distributorless-ignition
Bosch ignition module (0227100203) and wiring harness (to interface between ECU and coil-pack)
Intake Air Temp Sensor and Plug
Porsche-specific trigger wheel sensor bracket + VR trigger sensor
3.2 Rothsport pulley
36-1 trigger wheel (that mounts to Rothsport pulley)
Dizzy port plug
Innovate LC-2 wideband (with gauge) for tuning

The microsquirt is a compact MSII in a sealed body.

From my research I've found 3 other successful installs using GSXR throttle bodies so I'm not in uncharted territory. Still, it clearly isn't as popular as the Triumph based systems. The Triumph TB is a prettier unit, but it does angle in. It also uses a curved manifold system, whereas the GSXR will be straight shots into the intake.

The shroud that came on my core 3.2 was a beat up 2.7 that had been primed and painted black. It also suffered a few broken tabs. I removed the metal directing fin at the back and I've sanded it down. I've also sanded around the extra holes that I wont need in order to back fill with a small fiberglass kit that I picked up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603859.jpg

Extra holes include the pipe for the charcoal canister, and mounting clip holes for harnesses and ignition wires.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603859.jpg

My first foray into fiberglass work, but it seems pretty simple.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1520603859.jpg

I'll paint it gloss or satin black me thinks. If it turns out poorly, I'll opt for a raw amber shroud but they are sooooo expensive! The nice thing about the amber is I can go with black valve covers. If I go with a black shroud, I think raw or silver powdercoated/cerakote valve covers is the way. Maybe vapor blast the outside and seal.

Next up on the engine is the bottom end. Got a little side tracked with research on what to build out, but I think my plan is formulating finally. Have a great weekend.

Just a little update here. Thanks to Trophy Performance here in Las Vegas for cleaning up my chain box housings / covers and valve covers.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1522511760.jpg

The valve covers had blue powdercoat on them so I spent a week removing the powdercoat and then had them soda/media blasted. Late 87 covers, but they've lived a hard life. Might sell and put toward some billet covers. Though those are a bit blingy for my taste.

The advantage of the billet covers would be a truly flat cover, and less prone to leaks. I did sand these down a bit on a piece of glass. There's pitting on some of the cover surface so to hide that I may have to powdercoat again. The one thing I didn't like about powdercoating the valve covers was that the powdercoat can come off and create a soft lip around the aluminum washers. Even if you just hand torque them down. I might try cerakote for a thinner harder finish.

I'm in the market for some Euro spec 3.2 pistons. If you've removed some from your Euro spec 3.2 and have a deal on some clean pistons with ring lands in spec, PM me. Thanks in advance!

Well minor update

I wanted to make the intake look more purposeful and designed as opposed to cobbled together spare parts.

I looked at Cerakote process at my local powdercoater for the hard durable finish. Cerakote, at the time of this post, seems to have limited color selection, though more colors are available by mixing the base colors together. This raises the price a bit.

I debated between titanium, which is like a dull silvery color, and bronze. I've seen gold and it's just too much. The bronze seemed like a nice muted color and something that was accomplishing my goal of tying the pieces together while being a call back to that goldish / bronzy intake parts of the 60's and 70's.

Here it is before.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530383274.jpg

And here it is after.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530384233.jpg

The Cerakote is much thinner and more durable than powdercoating. I decided to risk coating the bands, knowing they would get a bit scratched up when installing. But the screw will be on the backside of the TB so it wont be that visible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530384137.jpg

The manifolds turned out nice:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530384283.jpg

I'm wondering if a standard 3.2 insulator will be fine for this. The stock insulator has a slot for the injector. I think maybe there are webber insulators that don't have the slot that I may try to source.

Overall, it's a bit dark, but I think with the polished aluminum velocity stacks, the eye will be drawn to those instead, which is a prettier part.

I also am in in the market for one of these throttle bell housing pieces with shaft and arms. If you have one let me know.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530383788.jpg

I'll use it on my test bed that I built so that I can fine tune the movement of the shafts and the layout so as to make a more plug and play final install. I can build a harness and the fuel rails and everything on it as well.

I am making progress on the case. Plan is to get the piston squirters cleaned out next. I also boxed up my oil pump to send off to Glen Yee. I'm going with a 3.4 build. So I'll be buying new JE 3.4 10.3:1 pistons and boring my mahle cylinders.

What do you guys think?

I'm not sure about any vapor blasting services in the Vegas area, but this guy has a really good rep in the motorcycle community. He's located in Tucson:

https://www.restocycle.com/

i think i found this thread at exactly the right time. all the required tools to dismantle/build my SC engine arrive tomorrow.
Duane, you're the man.

hey

Thanks Chris. Luckily we have the 'who's who' of Porsche air cooled engine builders right here on this very forum and many are kind enough to chime in and offer guidance. The knowledge is here if you are patient and willing to search and listen. I also have great help locally here in Las Vegas. Trophy Performance has a been a fantastic resource for me. Todd, Jim, Patrick and the others are super friendly and if I was lucky enough to be a 'check writer' type I would probably just have them build the engine for me. So pulling from local and internet sources will be my engine school 101.

The nice thing about it all is if the rod comes flying through the case, I'll have no one to blame but myself. :-D