Anyone actually install and now running QSC Iron Cylinders for 2.7?

SalParadise · 06-07-2018, 07:15 AM

I've read quite a few of the ten-year-old posts for the QSC pistons, cylinders, etc.

It's now 2018. Has anyone here actually installed the QSC 2.7 90mm cylinders and pistons and have run them in an engine? I see on eBay that they have sold to people, but in all the searching I have not seen a post with actual experience with the iron cylinders and the QSC pistons in recent times.

If anyone has done this, please post. Reason is, summer is here, my car sits there with two scored bores and if I can pay $1K vs. $3K right now to drive the car this season I will. Thanks

Mike Billings · 06-07-2018, 07:55 AM

I believe Supertec has the details on these if you would like to call them.

Supertec Porsche Engine Rebuilder

SalParadise · 06-07-2018, 08:21 AM

Thanks, in the old threads there is much discussion from these guys. They never used the cast iron cylinders. They matched the NikaSil versions with other pistons and sold those. I was just wondering if anyone dared to venture into the cast iron cylinder/cast piston setup that is being offered and actually has run them. There's no point in me spending $1K if people have not. I would rather save up the $3K and get Mahles in the long run I guess, which is not much more considering time to pull it all apart.

Peter M · 06-08-2018, 02:18 AM

Or make this guy an offer he can't refuse:
NIB 2.7 p&c set

They're been for sale for about 2 years.

lvporschepilot · 06-08-2018, 04:13 AM

Lots of people are running them in these engines, 356 engines, the VW community use them and pump serious boost and power into them, they’re just not posting here as most are installed by shops and not customers. I’ve even heard the argument that iron was preferred as it is a more stable material than aluminum which makes sense. I have no personal experience with them so I cannt say, but I do recal some years ago Supertec used them with success in some serious motors. AA sell an awful lot of them. Might want to ask them

SalParadise · 06-08-2018, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter M

Or make this guy an offer he can't refuse:
NIB 2.7 p&c set

They're been for sale for about 2 years.

Thanks, I saw that. I sent him a PM and asked him why he bumped it for the first time in 2 years. Last action was 2016. It would save me $700 for sure.

I'm just at the point where i want to drive the car. If those iron ones lasted 20,000 miles I probably wouldn't care now. It's just one thing after another. I'm not getting any younger, and the car hasn't been together in awhile...

SalParadise · 06-08-2018, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

Lots of people are running them in these engines, 356 engines, the VW community use them and pump serious boost and power into them, they’re just not posting here as most are installed by shops and not customers. I’ve even heard the argument that iron was preferred as it is a more stable material than aluminum which makes sense. I have no personal experience with them so I cannt say, but I do recal some years ago Supertec used them with success in some serious motors. AA sell an awful lot of them. Might want to ask them

This is true. I would just like to know how the iron cylinders hold up in a 911 engine. Iron would be preferred since it has half the expansion rate of aluminum, but then you are running aluminum pistons in the iron which do expand a lot more, which makes me think that at some point there is going to be scoring and or rubbing due to the expansion quality of aluminum vs. the iron unless it's built in.

It's a deal. At the end of the day, $1K vs $2k (for those posted Nikisil P/Cs) it's not worth it at all to save the $1K for the amount of work involved.

Left_coast*9 · Left_coast*9's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

Lots of people are running them in these engines, 356 engines, the VW community use them and pump serious boost and power into them, they’re just not posting here as most are installed by shops and not customers. I’ve even heard the argument that iron was preferred as it is a more stable material than aluminum which makes sense. I have no personal experience with them so I cannt say, but I do recal some years ago Supertec used them with success in some serious motors. AA sell an awful lot of them. Might want to ask them

^^What he said. They will last more than 20K miles in a properly tuned engine. Bet they last 100k. Please do it and keep us posted!

KTL · 06-08-2018, 06:46 AM

Ask Lapkritis (Andy) how his magnesium 2.7 with QSC cylinders is fairing these days. He put a LOT of time and effort into doing it his way.

Specific Question - ARP Head Studs on 2.7 Magnesium case - Insane?

lvporschepilot · 06-08-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalParadise

This is true. I would just like to know how the iron cylinders hold up in a 911 engine. Iron would be preferred since it has half the expansion rate of aluminum, but then you are running aluminum pistons in the iron which do expand a lot more, which makes me think that at some point there is going to be scoring and or rubbing due to the expansion quality of aluminum vs. the iron unless it's built in.

It's a deal. At the end of the day, $1K vs $2k (for those posted Nikisil P/Cs) it's not worth it at all to save the $1K for the amount of work involved.

Aluminum 2618 and 4032 in iron air cooled cylinders is done every day with the VW and 356 guys. Some of those VW engines are making serious power too. Just make certain you or someone qualified measures them up well then run it in good health. Cheers.

SalParadise · 06-08-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

Aluminum 2618 and 4032 in iron air cooled cylinders is done every day with the VW and 356 guys. Some of those VW engines are making serious power too. Just make certain you or someone qualified measures them up well then run it in good health. Cheers.

Thanks. I think I'm going to do it. What's the worst that can happen?

Trackrash · Trackrash's Garage

I've been running iron cylinders in my 2,1L T1 VW for decades. Cima 94 mm cylinders. They were made by a Japanese company, so I can't compare to QSC. No piston slap, no oil burning after 50K miles.

All the Porsche T motors had iron cylinders.....

Mark Henry · 06-08-2018, 05:42 PM

Porsche went to the aluminum cylinders because you can only get so much HP/rpm out of an iron jug before you run into heat soak issues.
An iron jug VW type 4 gets the heads hot if you run much over 3600-3800rpm for a long time.
My nickies (102mm X 78, T4) I can't get the heads much over 325F even running at 4500+ rpm for 100 miles pulling hills.

Will they work? I don't see why not on a bone stock 2.7 street car driven conservatively.

lvporschepilot · 06-09-2018, 09:57 AM

Also remember 930 cylinders don’t even have cooling fins on half the cylinder, only the bottom half that faces the exhaust has them, which is obvious as a turbo exhaust gets far hotter than a NA exhaust. The argument that the cylinder acts partially as a heat sink for the heads makes some sense but a majority of the heat still stays in the heads, this is true of any engine. Some serious engines have been built with iron liners and a lot of old 911 mechanics actually prefer them due to their more stable properties. In the ferrari world, we actually insist on using iron liners for testarossa rebuilds rather than stock aluminum as it is impossible to keep every alum liner completely round when torqued. Slightly different I know but I wish people would calm down about this silly issue.

Lapkritis · Lapkritis's Garage

The pistons that come with the kit are stock cis style so you can't run a big cam without piston work. I went with JE pistons and had them honed to fit in 2.8L with ceramic barrier coatings. Mine was more of a street hotrod build with big cam, PMO carbs, headers, heatsinks etc.

They work just fine but as with any engine assembly, inspect all parts and measure to ensure fit.

Paralysis by analysis will only leave you on the sidelines another year. Take your stock pistons/jugs, soak them with Gibbs / Wd40 and store in a plastic container for if you or the next guy ever want to go back to aluminum.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

cnavarro · 07-04-2018, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

The pistons that come with the kit are stock cis style so you can't run a big cam without piston work. I went with JE pistons and had them honed to fit in 2.8L with ceramic barrier coatings. Mine was more of a street hotrod build with big cam, PMO carbs, headers, heatsinks etc.

They work just fine but as with any engine assembly, inspect all parts and measure to ensure fit.

Paralysis by analysis will only leave you on the sidelines another year. Take your stock pistons/jugs, soak them with Gibbs / Wd40 and store in a plastic container for if you or the next guy ever want to go back to aluminum.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

Spot on. If you choose to go the route of an import cylinder, be sure you have a way to inspect them for ovality, taper, and surface finish. It would be best to throw the pistons away and have the cylinder slightly over-bored and honed with new pistons to ensure best results.

We offered the AA Porsche 914/VW Type 4 iron cylinders in our Type 4 Store (different business) and stopped doing so because the Ra, Rpk, Rk, and RvK values were all over the place and way too rough, not to mention the cylinders were beyond the limits for what we consider acceptable. We ended up buying cylinders without pistons undersized and we were boring them out and re-honing them to our specs to be able to ensure good results.