chip or computer

blueaudis4 · 03-20-2003, 10:39 PM

i have a 01' r11s with a remus racing pipe. should i get a chip or something like a pc3??? which is more beneficial and why. i am also putting a air filter in. any idea's on the chip/computer and what type of filter i should use?
brian

718Rider · 03-21-2003, 04:53 AM

You need something to richen up the fuel flow with that Remus pipe - a K12RS fuel regulator might be your best bet. Do a search on the archives - there is a TON of information about chips, etc. . .

I use a San Jose BMW SJBMW Powerfilter air filter. A lot of people on the board use it. It works great.

Tom

CarlosT · 03-21-2003, 06:20 AM

I'm not aware of a Power Commander for the Motronic. That Techlusion crap thing is the closest to a device bypassing the ECU.

dfaber · 03-21-2003, 06:29 AM

Why do you call the techlusion thing Crap?

CarlosT · 03-21-2003, 06:36 AM

Ha! I knew I'd stir up the hornet's nest

Has anyone done an objective comparison between a good chip and the Fuel Granny or whatever they call that thing.

pdonnell · 03-21-2003, 06:41 AM

I put in my old FIM chip in Raven's bike. He had the fuel nanny. I believe he indicated a much better improvement over the nanny.

CarlosT · 03-21-2003, 06:52 AM

That's not objective but cool...it's a start

I love all this soft science going on with fooling the Motronic.

pdonnell · 03-21-2003, 07:05 AM

Only Eron has modified a Power Commander for our bike as far as I know. And I don't believe there would be any objective comparisons out there between chips, fuel nannys, K12RS fuel regs.
.
Unless you can step up with some objective info, seat of the pants and some dyno comparos is all we have.

roger albert · 03-21-2003, 07:08 AM

Ok,

this isn't as specific as Carlos wants (or I would prefer) but I can say that any of the piggyback type units (techlusion/specially-modified-pc3) can at best match a chip properly matched to your system. If you're comparing to a chip that also modifies ignition mapping, then the piggy-back unit (pbu) can only come out behind.

Now, if there is no chip even close to your config, then you might do slightly better with a pbu, but that presumes a lot of dyno and road work, and that you're more than able to make up power with fuel, that you lose due to no ability to adjust spark. This is frankly a pretty rare scenario. Guys in Aus near FIM, or Germany near BBP can definitely do better with a chip. People selecting a BBP chip and the right map can probably do better than with a pbu.

Those aren't hard and fast rules, but they're pretty damn firm and quick.

Also, units like the PC-3 don't really fool the motronic (earlier units did)
They intercept the output of the motronic (injector pulsetrain) and modify it (pulse width) to change fuel delivery. Other than any feedback left via the lamda sensor, the motronic doesn't know anything is happening)

One last note, I think the PC3r CAN do ignition mods, so with that, you could match commercial chips, and beat chips setup for significantly different configs from your own.

Eron, if you're listening, did you do a pc3 or pc3r?

roger

Eron Flory · 03-21-2003, 07:14 AM

A chip is great if someone makes one for your particlular setup. If someone doesn't then you are out of luck. That's why I adapted a PC3 to fit my S. It was a lot of work but worth it to me.

The Techlusion unit only allows you to riched the mixture not lean it out and only has 3 RPM ranges to adjust. My PC3 allows me to lean or richen the mixture in any combination of 64 RPM ranges and 10 or so throttle positions.

Unfortunately Dynojet has no interest in making a PC3 for BMWs. Chris at SJBMW has talked about making a kit and I have offered to share my experience with him but I don't know when he will have time to do it or if it will make financial sense for him to do it.

I will post it here if the PC3 kit does become reality. The biggest issue as I see it is getting the plugs to make the installation a plug in. I had to cut into my harness since a lot of the plugs that BMW uses are proprietary and aren't sold seperately, only as a complete harness.

Eron

CarlosT · 03-21-2003, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by roger albert
...Other than any feedback left via the lamda sensor, the motronic doesn't know anything is happening)...

Let's not forget oil temperature, throtle position and prolly speed and other stuff. The Motronic is pretty cool...too bad it's not closed loop all the way or has a true mass airflow sensor. Now that would be cool

I gotta believe that Bosch has other more advanced units out there but BMW is thrifty.

roger albert · 03-21-2003, 07:52 AM

Sure, it has some of those. But they don't interface with the pbus.
The motronic still blindly does that same stuff with that info it always did, and the pbu blindly modifies it based on a hardcoded, empirically deterimined map. Any other effects are minimal, if existant. Richer mixture causes things to run a bit cooler - but offset by increased power generating a bit more heat etc etc.

Yeah, better stuff exists on the cars for sure. Not only cost, but packaging play roles. The relatively small airbox/displacement and airbox/intake-pulse ratios make air metering difficult as well, compared with a car. That also slows adoption/implementation.

roger

Eron Flory · 03-21-2003, 08:17 AM

Roger,

I have the PC3 without timing adjustment. That was more than I wanted to tackle on the first go around. Also I used the Triumph unit because it had the correct injector plugs on it already, but is not offered with in the R version. There are aftermarket ignition units available that allow you to map the ignition but I haven't felt the need for that, at least not yet.

Eron

zx9rmal · 03-21-2003, 08:06 PM

Maybe it's me, but I've ridden a couple of S bikes with pipes and matching chips and they don't feel like they run any better than mine with a TBR exhaust and no cat code plug.

Believe me, I would have no problem admitting my bike not running as well. What's the story?

roger albert · 03-26-2003, 05:25 AM

Good question.

First, I'd say the stock mapping is half decent, so there are only marginal gains to be had to begin with. 2nd, most of the weak aread of a piped bike will be rich, and you've addressed that to some degree. It's not the most fuel efficient or clean running way to to so, but it's certainly one way to skin the cat. Add to that that the seat-of-the-pants brand of dynos are the least accurate, and it all seems pretty plausible.

i.e. even if your config is _slightly_ inferior, doesn't mean you could feel it.

roger

CarlosT · 03-26-2003, 07:12 AM

Here's a question. Now that Laser sells the BCR complete system with the chip, is the chip any different than the chip that's been available by itself for the past few years?

Trevor Rossack · 03-26-2003, 01:39 PM

Would not think so. There is no reason for it to be different.

Cheers
TREVOR

brad black · 03-27-2003, 02:16 AM

if the system is a different design, then the chip is probably different.

dunno, haven't been paying attention to the lazer stuff. it's very expensive out here.

Hejira · 03-27-2003, 05:35 AM

At Daytona, the Dynojet rep who was there running dynos on race bikes confirmed that they will offer a PC III for the R11S by late spring.
I recommend waiting on that part, then head to a dyno to map it. With Ducatis that have had a chip installed, the PC III still makes a big improvement. THat indicates that a chip itself is not enough.

Eron Flory · 03-27-2003, 06:25 AM

That's interesting, I was told by the head guy at Dynojet in very direct terms that they will NOT make a PC3 a BMW. I have also heard from two other people who were told the same thing (this all in the last 3 months). It would be nice if they did make one, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you...

Eron