one man's Laser tale

[blakebird]

I installed the Laser and 2-spark chip today. It's back together and ready to go.....but we had a virtual monsoon this afternoon, so the test ride will wait for tomorrow.

In hindsight, everything went pretty smoothly...but for the folks who have not done this yet, a coupla things. They may only apply to an '04 Prep, who knows.

1) The O2 sensor bung on the Laser (street) 'Y' pipe is considerably farther aft than the stock cat-con, and faces right and slightly rearward whereas the stock position is front and center.
First indications were that I was about 8" shy of having enough wire to get to the thing.
After removing the bodywork/tank, I found the required slack ziptied under there. Huge relief, but it brought out the most serious flaw with a great system.
Virtually no instructions for the pipe install. Not that tough to wing it, but it knowing that extra wire was there would've saved me a minor cardial infarction. Once the wire is routed, there's really not much to keep it from resting on the header....so tomorrow morning I will look for a place to zip tie it up out of heat's way.

2) The Motronic box is sealed with a huge bead of RTV, and it's not readily visible until you start really prying.... and prying without using too much force is easy to say, tough to do. I did it without doing any harm - but the ONE hint in the instructions is right on. TAKE YOUR TIME. I ended up looking at the wrong side of the Motronic board, and had to cut gently thru yet another four sides of RTV.

3) The chip instructions don't mention it, but the shop manual pdf did.... after you reconnect the battery and get ready to rumble..... turn on the ignition but don't start it. Twist the throttle twice full thru it's range of motion to reindex the TPS. If I didn't have the pdf on CD at home I would've missed that. How crucial, I'm not sure. My guess is fairly-to-very.

4) just an FYI - my 'Y' pipe had no lower supports that used the rubber grommets, but all was held in place with a clamp that mounted around the section of tailpipe that runs across to the right side cannister, and it mounts to an existing hole in the fiberglass seat pan. Works good, looks clean.

I did not get the Motronic snap in loom snapped in 100% when reinstalling everything. I was glad I didn't put all the plastic back on until I fired it up, because when I turned the key on, all systems were GO except the fuel pump never whirred into action. Uh oh..... I thought the worst.
But, reaching in and re-seating the connector resulted in the fuel pump buzzing happily along. Yay.

The hard parts mounted up solidly and everything fit perfectly. I had a little vial of silicone that came with one of my Arai helmets....and that worked well to lube the soft white rubber grommets that mount each muffler. They weren't tough to get on at all.... all those Z-Technik tales of woe had me going

Hopefully the next guy who uses the search feature will find this and save him/herself some grief or worry.

Blake

[roger albert]

Yeah, I don't know why the heck laser seems to feel they have to locate te lambda sensor where they do. It's true of their cat eliminators too. I, and I think quite a few others had the same near-infarktion/then-relief cycle as you. Ditto the problem with the wire resting on the pipe. The laser stuff works well, but that part is annoying.

You can run pretty darn well without the throttle reset, but it's still a good idea. Still sounds easier than those of us who moved from laser to ztech. That did suck. Have fun with the new pipe

later
roger

[Bob in Tucson]

I recently completed an install of a Laser exhaust (street variety, not race) on a 2002 SBX, single-spark and I found Blake's suggestions helpful. So I thought I might add a few of my own tips to Blake's post to help others that might attempt same in the future.

-- Dealing with the O2 (lambda) sensor

With the original exhaust still installed, remove the plastic panels around the tank and the air feed duct, then unbolt the tank. I was able to shove it out of the way to access what I needed rather than fully removing it. If you trace the wires from the sensor up along the tank (gray cover), you'll find the two zip ties that hold the extra lead you'll need to free-up. Clip those two ties (my fingers are pointing at them in photo; it will be obvious--they are visible in the shop manual too, pic included), disconnect the plug that exhists at that end, and then unbolt the sensor from the original exhaust. Install it in to the new exhaust.

-- New chip

I learned here (thanks) that it is common for aftermarket chips to be piggybacked on a separate board. This is true for the Laser. The pic shows the original chip pulled and the Laser chip installed. The instruction included for this step are helpful.

-- Mounting the cans

There are no instructions and only one tiny photo that helps a little but not enough for this dummy. So...

1. If you've never done this before, be sure and leave all the bolts loose until the whole business is assembled. Only then should you systematically snug everything down.

2. The whole system fits well. However, I had to ream the mounting bushings (whte) on the cans to get them to go onto the exhaust mounts under the seat. I tried everything to make it go as received, but it was simply not going to happen. If I remember correctly, the bike's exhaust mounts are about 0.47" thick (perhaps 12 mm) so I installed the bushings into their appropriate place on the cans and reamed them gingerly with a 7/16" (0.41") drill bit. A little more reaming, a little silicone spray, and a lot of serious shoving and she finally went, snugly.

3. I reinstalled the clamp from the original exhaust to tie the cans to the Y-pipe. This may be standard operating procedures but I didn't even think of it until shannnonnunley suggested it to me. Thanks Shannon, definitely a good idea. I am referring to the lower clamp in the photo (15 mm bolt).

4. I found the hardware included to secure the cans to be a puzzle. The photo shows what I eventually came up with, which seems right except that it does not use all of the hardware included.

The key for me was to realize that I needed to remove the small bolt and brass nut (I don't know the proper name for those things that are press-fit all over bikes to receive threads) and use the existing hole in the seat pan. With that out of the way, drop in the included bolt and from below install the spacer, the small end of the U bracket, washer, then the nut. The other end of the U bracket mounts between a pair of large washers between the ends of the curved steel strap that mounts to the cans. There is an angled piece of flat steel included that I could find no use for...

5. Given its different orientation, I touted the sensor lead differently that original; I passed it through the swingarm and up along the starter motor.

I was worried that any aftermarket pipes might too loud for me for touring but there are on the quiet side (db killers left in place) and is just about right for me. When I am cruising along in top gear at about 4,000 rpm (highway speeds), I can barely hear the exhaust through my Shoei with no ear plugs (which I wear on long trips). When I punch the gas, I then hear the exhaust note, which is just what I wanted.

Overall the bike feels a little smoother and might spin up a bit quicker.

Hope that is some help.

[boxercup]

Greetings,

Nice work BlakeBird and Bob!

You are now master teckies!

Bob, is that first photo a "V" for victory sign????.....Miller time?

All in all, you would not believe the phone calls I get about installations. We have a good crew out there! They might not be mechanics, but they have brains....where-as mechanics have tools....and some have great brains!

We have a new sheet going out with every LASER system starting next month to further explain the installation of the systems with photos
and a few tricks. One is to do the Laser PowerChip first. While the panels are off, disconnect the o2 sensor wire above by the motronic and trace the o2 wire-cut the plastic ties and drop the wire down to the ground, be sure to protect the wire and connector from damage. This makes it a snap top remove the o2 sensor from the cat and install it immediatly in the Sport collector. Before you install the panels install the exhaust system and trace the o2 wire up to the connector and tie off with new plastic ties.

Again guys, nice work!

Now enjoy your "S"s!

Cheers,

Robert Foster
Foster MotorRad
FosterRad@att.net
718-468-4680

PS: After you have installed your 50th system it is mindless, however, the first one, is like the first time you hung walpaper....

[blakebird]

Originally posted by Bob in Tucson
The photo shows what I eventually came up with, which seems right except that it does not use all of the hardware included.
There is an angled piece of flat steel included that I could find no use for...

Bob.... that is exactly right. I had that nicely made piece of bent flatstock left over - not a clue where it might have been needed.
My "crossover clamp" assembly is EXACTLY like yours.

btw....that piece of strap going around the cans in that picture (if I've saved the right image in the quote!) broke.
Died of vibration poisoning.... I was getting a resonating 'zaaannngggg' sound in the upper rpm's - that was the culprit. It still retains the pipe from moving, but will get replaced. (piece of plumber's tape* for now until I find a better solution).



* you know....the flexible metal strap with evenly spaced holes for hanging pipe.

[alq2]

Sorry blakebird but I can't help but comment on that 90degree fitting between the two mufflers. It is such a horrid design, I just can't stand it!!

[blakebird]

Originally posted by alq2
Sorry blakebird but I can't help but comment on that 90degree fitting between the two mufflers. It is such a horrid design, I just can't stand it!!

don't buy one then!

You can't really see it in the picture - that steel clamp has a sort of stamped-in gusset at the bends. That's where mine fatigued and broke, on the top.
It's fixed with a temporary clamp, I'm going to put some muffler wrap tape between the pipe and clamp to dampen vibration.

[Bob in Tucson]

Originally posted by alq2
90degree fitting between the two mufflers. It is such a horrid design, I just can't stand it!!

If I remember correctly, one of the stock mufflers has no direct connection to the up-pipe at all and is connected indirectly by a U between mufflers.

This laser design definitely has more equal outflow between cans than stock. What that means, I have no idea.

Whether or not any of these designs are horrid or spectacular, I would think is impossible for any of us to judge by appearance. I'm not defending the Laser design, however, I suspect (indeed, I hope!) that there is more going on to the engineering of these designs (including stock) than we can judge by eye...

[Andy E]

Bob,

I just did this installation myself over the weekend and found pretty much all of your comments to be dead on. I had a heck of a time getting the cans to slip over the little finger grommets, just like you did, even after grinding welds and lubing the thing up. Additionally, I had a tough time getting a wrench on the front left flange bolt that connects the cat eliminator to the header. I ended up bending and eventually breaking an Allen wrench to tighten it. I still don't think it's quite tight enough though, so I'm going to have to try something else.

My impressions about performance were also similar to yours. Overall, it does seem somewhat smoother, most noticeably at higher RPMs. There also seems to be better throttle response and power all over the power band. On the downside, it does seem to be harder to start now and usually cuts out right after I start it the first time. This never was the case before. Low range seems to be flat in some areas and a little rougher than the stock setup. I have had some backfiring when rolling off the throttle.

Overall, I like the system, although I need to put some more miles on it before I can develop a very strong opinion.

[bikerfish1100]

AndyE-
use a ball head allen to tighten the head pipe connection. did you go with the chip? if not, that might explain some of the performance shortcomings.

[Bob in Tucson]

Andy, as bikerfish suggested, I used a ball head allen to get to that one too, which really is tough to get to... To get a bit of torque on the bolt, I grabbed the short end of allen wrench with a channel lock and twisted it to within an inch of its life. I could not get a hex head socket in there...

[bikerfish1100]

i'll use a box end wrench slipped over the shaft of the allen to get the torqueing leverage i need (an old trick learned from using an airhead toolkit for complete dismantling of a bike, right down to frame and bits).

[blakebird]

Originally posted by bikerfish1100
i'll use a box end wrench slipped over the shaft of the allen to get the torqueing leverage i need (an old trick learned from using an airhead toolkit for complete dismantling of a bike, right down to frame and bits).

That's how I did it too..... box end over the short side of a ball-end hex. The threads needed to be cleaned, and a little anti sieze wouldn't be a bad idea. They got pretty squeaky and tightened up before any actual tightening was done. Tough to ensure getting them tightened evenly....

I had no backfiring at any time, nor iffy throttle response anywhere but perhaps right off idle under load. That condition was helped greatly by the K&N air filter.

I picked up a piece of exhaust heat wrap (looks like a length of burlap belt) about an inch wide - and another clamp. Hopefully the wrap will dampen the vibes a bit.

[bikerfish1100]

i went one step further. after snapping one of rottenbiker's cat bolts last year (silly me, i thought i had to separate the exhaust to do a good trans drain), i replaced it with metric stainless. so i did mine like that, even without snappping any. plus anti-seize. should do finely-fine.

[boxercup]

Greetings,

>WD-30<

Please install new allen bolts!

If you have an "S" with miles on it, always count on replacing the allen bolts and chase the threads with a tap.

Cheers,

Robert Foster
Foster MotorRad
FosterRad@att.net
718-468-4680

[alq2]

Bob,
You can judge by appearances....The more bends or turns in a length of pipe, and the sharper the turns (smaller the turning radius) the larger the losses in flow. It is an engineering fact.

A better connection would be to use a "Y"

The exising design gives you more flow into one muffler than the other for the reasons described.

Now, assuming that the two mufflers are identical, one would want the flow on both pipes to be equal, no?

I have no doubt that this system should flow better than stock, due to the less restrictive mufflers, but when one attempts to design a performance exhaust system, you just don't use this type of connection.

[boxercup]

Greetings,

Laser engineered the system to produce HP. It does. This system was selected by BMW for the BoxerCup series for that reason.

The mufflers are not identical, they are engineered to take 80% into one can and 20% into the other.

This system does produce more HP than other brands that are engineered differently, possibly ones that you would approve of.

It does not matter how you get there, only the result.

They work just fine!

Cheers,

Robert Foster
Foster MotorRad
FosterRad@att.net
718-468-4780

[Bob in Tucson]

alq2,

Be sure, I'm no exhaust engineer. All I am saying is that I imagine there is more to exhaust design than simply maximum flow-through. Not having enough back-pressure likely creates its own set of limitations and trade-offs. Again, I am not defending this design relative to others because I have no basis for that, just saying that I suspect there's more at work here than max flow-through.

Anyone with some real understanding care to chime in?

[Andy E]

Bikerfish-

Yes, I did go with the chip. The bike's about due for its 6k service so I imagine that the throttle bodies are out of sync. Also, most of the backfiring was happening in the morning with temps in the mid 40s. I ran it again in the afternoon with temps in the mid 60s and it was quite a bit better.