ABS in a turn? ABS vs. non-ABS

[Steve Carlton]

Curious what happens if you are forced to brake in a turn hard enough to engage the ABS? Can it save your bacon? I'm not willing to test it voluntarily... I have heard it's worked wonders, at least on surfaces with traction problems, such as gravel.

What's different about the feel of a non-ABS bike? Mine has the partially integrated ABS; for the most part I like the rear engaging with the front. The rear does sometimes lock up and walk out a little on slow, sharp, downhill turns and on short, quick stops.

I know the magazines all tout the non-ABS as perferable for more intense applications, but I like the safety factor and engaging the rear in a "lazy" way.

[Raven]

NO!!!!!

ABS only works while traveling in straight line!!

ABS locks and unlocks the brakes very quickly during hard braking.
It does not control or regulate the pressure for conditions, only rapidly lock and release.

For ABS to work in a corner, it would need to know that it is in a corner (it can't), and then know how much pressure to apply without causing wheel lock up (fall down). Any lock up while leaning over has the potential for disaster!

I tested this theory while making a right turn one early morning (not on my S). Trust me; the end result was not pretty!

[markjenn]

I don't think the answer is clear cut.

The ABS is going to work the same whether you're in a corner or not. If the computer senses any wheel skid due to braking (i.e., differential wheel speed) then it is going to release the brakes to get the wheel rolling again.

The difference lies in what happens during the momentary wheel skid. In a straight line, the tire skids a bit and you keep going in a straight line. But if you're leaned over, even a momentary skid can cause loss of control.

So I think ABS can always help, but as you get leaned over further and further, it's ability to bail you out gets more and more compromised because the contribution of the braking system to the skid becomes less and less - IOW, cornering forces dominate and the ABS sytem can do nothing to reduce cornering forces.

- Mark

[Joe]

The problem would be inconsistent feedback for you to make manual braking correction.

[John Lyon]

To me, the qualities of ABS are all negative until you screw up and really need it. Going into a turn under very hard breaking, it can kick in and it feels like you get "launched" forward - almost missing the turn.

The reason I'll always have it, though, is a recent experience where I came into a corner with gravel in it, which I couldn't see because there was sun in my eyes. I overbraked given the gravel and would have gone down (and possibly slid into oncoming traffic) were it not for the ABS.

In summary, if I was racing, I wouldn't want it. If not racing, I'd want it.

[John Lyon]

I mean braking, not breaking...

[Rattus]

If its a situation that is "saveable" by virtue of keeping a wheel spinning, then ABS will help. If you hit gravel at full lean, then you'll washout even with the wheels turning and you become the victim of physics - Braking and therefore ABS aren't really a factor here. I personally feel that a spinning wheel is better than a locked wheel - so if you panic squeeze the front brake you'd be better of with ABS keeping the wheel spinning even in a corner rather than locking up and definitely skidding out. I used to have a non-ABS S - I feel better with the ABS I have now.

NOTE: I disagree with Raven, I dont think ABS locks and unlocks the brakes quickly. The rotation monitoring prevents the wheel from locking up. There's no skidding at all - you feel the wheel reaching the edge of adhesion, but it does NOT lock.

[Raven]

OK, let us change "lock" to "point of impending skid". Only a hairs difference.

I didn't explain my self clearly before and I don't think I will have any success here other than to say;

ABS monitors wheel speed not traction, figure it out.

I can tell you first hand after suffering $8,000.00 in damages that ABS WILL NOT SAVE YOU IF YOU ARE LEANED OVER IN A TURN!!!! And I knew that when I did it!

[JustAnotherSquid]

Raven's right - it's all about changes in wheel speed. If you are drifting the tires due to corner speed, but not LOCKING the tires, then the ABS will not intrude. Once you start to lock the tires, THEN the ABS will cycle.

I had a chance to "test" that recently when I got into a corner way too hot. I trail-braked right to the apex, sliding the front tire the whole way in. The ABS never kicked in. If it had, I'd probably be typing this from a hospital bed right now.

[Rattus]

Agreed Raven, I dumped my ABS S when I hit gravel at a lean. Thankfully I only had cosmetic damage. I think there's potential with traction control on bikes, but I imagine that would be keeping the rear wheel from spinning up rather than anything else.

Raven, would you say you're pro ABS?

[Flatbutt1]

So Steve, do you have your answer?

[Steve Carlton]

I'm thinking the answer is the ABS couldn't hurt and could help a lot. Obviously, if the bike is leaned way over or the road is offering less traction (water/leaves/gravel/whatever), just braking could exceed the available traction, and BOOM. If the wheels can be prevented from locking, you'd have more of a chance.

I'm not familiar with how the ABS is programmed on these bikes. Do they just kick in for speed differences between the wheels or if one is actually locking when the other is turning. Allowing even a momentary lock sounds dangerous, if you're in a turn.

I haven't slammed on the brakes in a straight line to test the ABS. What happens if you do? I'm reluctant to test that for fear of a stoppie becoming a crunchie.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Rattus
Agreed Raven, I dumped my ABS S when I hit gravel at a lean. Thankfully I only had cosmetic damage. I think there's potential with traction control on bikes, but I imagine that would be keeping the rear wheel from spinning up rather than anything else.

Raven, would you say you're pro ABS?

The only reason I have ABS is that it was on the bike that I happened to feel comfortable with at the time of purchase. I have never bought a bike because it had ABS.

I am a firm believer in improving rider skills and constantly honing them. That includes both mental and physical skills. The best on board computer you have on your bike is the one between your ears.

ABS can and does help when things go wrong (except while cornering), it can also get you in a boat load of trouble!!

Superior riding skills will always rule.

To answer your question, I'm neither for or against ABS.

I do how ever support rider training, all you can get!!

[bikerfish1100]

if you want to find out what the ABS feels like, ring the bike up to about 30 in a straight line, pull clutch and slam brakes. you will stop. it's an interesting feeling as it cycles on/off. best stops will happen at the point that ABS almost kicks in. i strongly recommend thta you take the MSF Experienced Rider Course. you get to practice that a lot. (they will want you to stop without engaging ABS). But it's good to know that it's there, and how if feels. I got a very slight rear wheel lift once or twice, but nothing significant, and very controllable. and i'm not a stoppie kinda guy.

[motoman]

ABS? They're great! And chicks dig 'em!

[Steve Carlton]

Actually, I just completed the MSF experienced rider course a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately, I think the experience depends greatly on the quality of the instructor. I think I drew from the bottom of the deck.

When we were asked to stop as quick as we could, a couple of us were told how much shorter than average we stopped and to take it easy! So I stopped harder. The exercises were all in a large parking lot and at speeds usually 20-25 and below- not "real world" in my opinion. The DP Safety School taught at Thunderhill was really good.

The good news is I wound up with a 6" nail in my rear tire that entered the tread and resurfaced in the sidewall right next to the rim. It was holding air, so I called SJBMW and they took me right away and I put on Pilot Sports. Timing was good- they were having an "Open House" complete with a couple of umbrella girls and Brian Parriott. Brian was very friendly and easy going; lives here in northern California. Those umbrella girls will never drown!